recruiter life w/ hunter mitchem

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auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

Hello, hello. Thanks for listening to Guidance Counselor 2.0. Listen, I want to give you a quick rundown of what this podcast is and what you're about to get into as you listen to these episodes. We had Guidance Counselors in middle school. We had Guidance Counselors in high school, but we didn't really have Guidance Counselors in college and now as professionals, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask a quick question to learn something about the job search or to navigate your career. So that is what I want this podcast to be for you. I want it to be a tool for you to navigate the job search and your career.

So that being said, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you need to reach me, Taylor at vaco, VACO.com is how to get in touch with me old-fashioned email social media at T D S N T D E S S E Y N. And finally, please rate and review this in the app store because I want this to be discoverable for others so they can navigate their careers. Hope you enjoy the episode. Hunter, let's give the people what they want and why they're here. Who are you? What do you do? And we'll go from there. Yeah, absolutely. So names Hunter Mitchum, originally from the Nashville area, actually from Murfreesboro, originally went to Black and High.

Stuck around for a few years, went to MTSU and then transferred to UT. Didn't know what I wanted to do, wanted to be a baseball coach. I'm a baseball coach now, I actually have a coach part time for high school here in town. But yeah, longest time didn't know what I really wanted to do. I knew I loved people knew I wanted to make money and the more people I helped the more money I make so it's great so introduced myself into recruiting by actually changing my LinkedIn header to Pursuing jobs and recruiting and added every single recruit direct find in Nashville and got about four interviews out of it So recruit it my way into recruiting.

I guess really on me. Yeah. Yeah, I did not know that. That's cool, man That's cool. Yeah, so Hunter and I were chatting off air about what we're gonna talk about today and and I think the first and foremost So I want to kick it off with the state of the market Listen you're seeing a lot of blogs. You're seeing a lot of You know articles out there about layoffs and the great reorganization So I want to dive into that first and then we'll move into a few more topics today But Hunter what are your thoughts right now on the state of the market? Again, no wrong answers here because everybody likes to pontificate right and but I think I think you and I are in it a probably a lot more than the articles that are being written by the people who are writing them.

So what are you seeing right now man and what's some suggestions for job seekers? Yeah absolutely so we know it's been wild out there for job seekers for a while now what six, twelve months it's been absolutely insane. Salaries have gotten inflated everyone's hiring but people are almost a lot of people maybe are over hiring and because of that you know we're starting to see We're starting to see reorgs, we're starting to see people being laid off. We saw Carvana and Broom be affected last week, seen Facebook freezes, other large tech company freezes, things like that. So I would say the market was kind of like a spaceship just in absolute, it was going absolutely insane.

We're definitely starting to see a little bit of a slowdown now. It's still not really affecting my day to day. I don't know if it's affecting your day to day yet. I'll tell you. Giving us more candidates, right? Because it's been so tight. But there's still a lot of people hiring out there. So the market been absolutely insane for about a year now. Start in the slowdown. We'll see what continues to happen here. But it's been crazy. I'm seeing candidates get higher, faster than ever. Yeah. What's your tips for people right now who are starting a job? And they're like, you're saying it's slowing down.

We see all these reorges. We see all these layoffs. what's kind of a tip or two that somebody could take in with them in their new job to maybe help prevent them from either being laid off or knowing how to navigate the layoffs when it happens? Yeah, absolutely. So guess what? I'll start with your first piece there. So so you're talking when you're a new employee, right? How are you saying how do you prevent being one of the ones laid off or? Yeah, yeah that and just really any tips for new people because because again right People are starting jobs right now They're eating all this stuff about the great reorganization and these layoffs and stuff and they're like crap am I safe?

And so I'm trying to give them trying to give these people some more tangible things To kind of hold on so good well I think that starts before you even start the job right I feel like a lot of people aren't necessarily asking you know This isn't a first interview question right this is probably when you're getting towards the tell-in of the interview process but not enough people kind of ask about financials. Where does the money come from? In terms of funding, where did we get that funding? How much funding did you get? All that good stuff. I would say 30% of the candidates I talk to ask me those questions.

We have a lot of questions. No candidate asking me that. It should be more. So, it's before you accept the job. Understanding some people who are not risk adverse at all when they go find the most stable company you can. So people love startups, right? So it kind of depends on your profile, but it definitely starts before you take the job, right? Also, how you need to ask yourself, you know, what project am I working on? How important is it to the organization, right? Because if you're working on a really important organization or maybe, you know, maybe it's a project that's just a maintenance mode, that's going to affect how quickly someone might be laid off, right?

So I love that. So asking for, I guess, financials. I mean, listen, the company's not going to, you know, give you all of it. But I think you need to know some of it. Um, and then the second thing is, um, what did you say again? What was the second thing? I'm already forgotten. Oh, really good. Sure to forget to. It was so good. It was really, really nice. What was it? It was someone can tell us someone in the chat can tell us. Yeah, some of the check and tell us bring up the second thing. I don't know. I just, I just blanked out.

So, no, I think that's good. And I would agree. I mean, I think right now what I'm seeing too, I mean, companies are still hiring. There's a lot of engineers. There's a lot of engineering spots open right now. You know, Hunter, do you focus primarily on software dev too? Yeah, yeah. I'd say 89%. You know, work a little bit. Yeah, it's harder to hire both very embedded in the engineer world. I mean, people are still hiring, but I think you're not seeing as much mass hiring anymore. I think that's the biggest thing. You're not, people are still hiring, but you're not seeing the like throwing money at the walls anymore.

I think it's, I think that side has calmed down a little bit, but hiring is still happening. Um, so I don't want to like weird people out, um, too much. Um, so I, so I want to start by that, just kind of get your thoughts. I want to move into kind of the meat potatoes, this conversation was recruiters how to deal with us, especially on the agency side. So I, I really just want to hear from you. How do you like to be approached? What are some tips that you can give to people right now working with agency recruiters and just to kind of help their search out a little bit?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if you're going to reach out to a recruiter, first of all, you want to probably find someone who's been doing it a little while, right? You know, I was a new recruiter at one point. Taylor was too. So I'm not saying don't give new recruiters a chance. Absolutely do because they've got to grow and learn too. But I would go search for probably people in your city. I mean, it's gonna pin, right? Are you only after full of your moat? Are you only after, you know, onsite? Let's say someone is after onsite, which I'm seeing a little bit more lately.

It seems like people are starting to miss the office a little bit actually. So that's been wild. But I would reach out to a few people in your city who look like they have some tenure, work for reputable companies, and just introduce yourself, be personable. a quick intro on what have you done in software development, where are you hoping to go, ask for a 15, 30 minute phone call. And if you want to ask for a coffee or a lunch as well, because the candidates that I've had a coffee or a lunch with, they become personal friends. And I just, anytime I get a role, they're at the top of my mind.

So that just makes you a little bit. And we will buy you lunch and coffee just for the record. Like we have an expense report. We are actually judged a little bit. We are actually held accountable to get out in public. So take advantage with us. Let me ask you this Hunter. Why is it so important to find a recruiter with tenure? Yeah, so like with me, right? So if you're a dotnet developer, I can probably tell you 15 companies in town that are dotnet shops or if you're a Python developer, I can tell you the companies in town that are Python shops, right? So it's helpful to find someone who knows the market and can informally say, hey, I don't work with this company but you should probably check them out, right?

Or hey, I don't work with this company this company doesn't use recruiters, but hey, I know a senior developer over there and you know He might be happy to refer you right so we just have a little bit bigger networks We know the market. We know what companies may be to avoid what companies you should target all that good stuff What what do you think the biggest misconception of recruiters are that you deal with time and time again? That we don't care probably I mean I got in this because I care so much right I've always been a people Please where I've always want to you know, and I would say disclaimer we're not perfect right if we're talking if we're talking to five six seven cans today some of those conversations I mean one of those seven I want to break that down with what you said I do not want to miss because that's that's the big thing I try to preach right I don't think my biggest misintermission misconception understanding is I don't think people realize how much we do so talk talk to the people listening today about how How many conversations that we have and like, what are we held to and just maybe peel that onion back a little bit?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we used to, I would say five years ago when I started, first of all, we were held accountable more to our dials. We wanted to get out high volume and things like that. That's completely changed, right? People aren't answering the phone anymore. So now we're tracked a little bit more on how many good conversations we're having, how many resumes we might be submitting to hiring managers. We have to be effective now. It's not just about volume. It used to be, there used to be an idea that the more volume you have absolutely leads to results. Now it's about being a little bit smarter, building that network, having good relationships, right?

But we are talking to many candidates today. Whether that be a LinkedIn, just chatting, obviously I want to get on the phone to know someone a little bit more. I don't want to just be another face on the screen to you. I want to be able to get to know you a little bit in Love On You a little bit. So yeah, we're talking to so many candidates every day, every week, every month. And back to what I was about to say, we're not perfect, right? Probably if I'm having 20 calls a week, one of those calls might be a little bit awkward, right? With me, like I might not vibe with that person, you know?

But just because a call doesn't go great doesn't mean that recruiting it care about you or whatever, right? Just continue to stay in touch. I just get tired. Right? I want to ask you this ballpark. How many micro conversations do you have every day? I'm talking about LinkedIn slack You're not on toward it that much LinkedIn slack your normal calls. How many how many micro interactions do you think you have a day? So I'm probably sending Well, first of all some recruiters have different styles, right? So we're gonna just send a lot of messages I'm gonna send very targeted to can it looks like the perfect fit that's kind of more my style.

I'm probably sending out, not a ton, probably 40 messages a day and I'm probably interacting actually responding back to people with 15. So not a lot but me, I'm actually an introvert. I get very tired at 430. At 430 I'm like, whoo, I might continue sending messages but I'm not going to have a really strong conversation the name of it, it's gonna be really tough for me. So yeah, I don't know, 15 micro interactions where I'm trying to be really intentional and takes all of the time. I would argue and say that's more. I would argue and say you're having more conversations just 15 a day.

Because I'm talking about all your calls for your interviews and all your calls for prepping for stuff like that. I mean, I would say you are probably dealing with 50 plus conversations a day, at least, at least. Right. And we're strategizing, and we're strategizing with ourselves people. We talk internally all day too to our coworkers. Right? Right. Yeah, because I want to try to get the sheer magnitude talking to you. Because I know I've talked about it and people are tired about hearing it from me. So I'm trying to get it out of you right now. So let's talk about what the process looks like on a agency recruiter side.

And this is one candidate, right? So how many cancer are you talking to a week right now? I would go with 30, 40. Go on conversations. Good answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So I mean, yeah, I mean a lot, right? So talk about the process. So you talk to a candidate Talk about the entire process of taking that candidate from a call to a close real fast. Right, right. Absolutely. So what I'm gonna do First of all it my style is a little bit different to where I actually like to take 15 minute I take a 15 minute call and I will talk directly to the candidate about what they're looking for all that good stuff first and And then I will typically if I have a role in mind for them, I will send them I will send them a Lead or two right and if they're interested in that then I'll set up another 15 20 minute call typically I like to do videos I want to meet them face-to-face So I'm having a second conversation with them And then if it's a fit I'm submitting them to the client and then from there.

It's in there Oh Hunter come back. Are we still alive, Hunter? Are you there? Hunter, I lost you. Come back. Come back. All right, while Hunter is trying to get back on right now, I'm gonna continue, I'm gonna fill in with what he just said and kind of carry that out. So what happens is Hunter, please come back. Please come back, Hunter. Come back to me. So technical difficulties, Hunter, come back. So what he was saying is that essentially from when you take a candidate and you when we take a job seeker, we then send them to all of the opportunities. And then after we send a candidate to all the opportunities.

Oh, all right, we're back. We back. I'm sorry about that. I'm back. All right. All right. So let's go back. So so so so you had a second zoom call with the can to confirm the opportunities. Right. And then what? And then I'm submitting them to the hire manager, typically depending on the hire manager. We actually want to talk to the hire manager live while they're looking at the resume. We want to talk about maybe some concerns we have, things like that. So once an interview is set up, we're then prepping that candidate. Okay. What they can, you know, you know, just tips and tricks like, hey, don't do this.

Wear this. You know, make sure a background is kind of clean. You'd be shocked how many people have their bed in the background. It's just an absolute wreck, right? So, thank you, interrupt. Interrupt real quick. Y'all, listen, I'm not asking you all to be content creators and have all the fancy lights and stuff, but you really, really need to have a clean background, a well-lit room, a made-up bed, and at least a decent camera, because it doesn't hurt you, but I would say it definitely dings the first impressions a little bit. Would you say in good Wi-Fi, Taylor, in good Wi-Fi and good Wi-Fi. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Seriously. I don't know what happened there. So, so all right. So you're saying, so that's okay. So then you submitted the candidates they are interviewing. You're also coordinating the interview. And again, people reminder, this is one candidate, one candidate. All right. So you coordinate the interviews, and then one interview goes off. We asked for, so generally, let's say in interviews at 1 p.m. We might have a feedback call set up with the hire manager three. So, generally I ask for a candidate to call me right after an interview because if a hire manager asks me, hey, how did how did the candidate think it went?

And I'm like, oh, haven't talked to them yet. That's just generally not a good look. So, we like to get interview feedback right after the interview to watch fresh from the candy, get their filling, things like that. And then we do the feedback call and try to keep them moving. So then we'll set up another interview, another interview prep. That interview prep might be a little bit different, because maybe it's technical or maybe it's on site. I'm starting to have two on site interviews this week. So it's been, yeah, I know. It's kind of wild, right? So, yeah, I know. But again, right, and then on top of that, then a candidate gets an offer.

up. And then hunters being advocate for the Canada and the client as well. Right. Absolutely. More calls. A lot more calls. Yes. Yeah. Sometimes it's made in heaven and it's in in media. It's easy. And a lot of times it is not they've got six seven opportunities going on. I'm trying to balance right. We don't want to make the candidate mad, but we don't want to make client mad. So we're like, where's that sweet spot? You know, what do we need to do here? All that good stuff. So. So that's one candidate. That's one job speaker. And we have to do that every single time.

And so the reason why I wanted 100 to walk through that, even though that was very long, you're probably like Taylor, that's kind of boring. It's boring because there were so many steps. And we have to balance that with 15, 20 people. We could have what 10 to 20 people interviewing at one time. Yeah, absolutely. We're having to do all of that on top of. Finding more candidates. Finding more opportunities, finding more candidates. Right? So if an agency recruiter does not get back to you. Follow up. They may be a little busy. They may be a little busy. So follow up with them. All right, so I wanna do this.

If you all have any questions, please ask them. You have two agency recruiters in the dev space that are chatting live. So if you have questions, please throw them up. Hunter, I want to get into, what are just some general tips for job seekers right now? Obviously you and I are in the thick of it, dealing with job seekers and everything. And I want to give tips to hiring majors too. Let's talk job seekers first. What are some big things you're seeing that job seekers are falling short of right now? Yeah, absolutely. I would say transparency can go a long way, right? You don't have to give us your entire life story.

I know there's a lot of things that people maybe don't want to give up. But if you're cold and not building trust, that recruiter's gonna be a little bit wary and has a 10 of you, right? Cause they're gonna be like, man, is this guy gonna really mess with us on the end once offer comes? And then the client's gonna be mad, right? So transparency, be a person, right? Again, we wanna help you out. We're not always just looking for an edge or something to have already, right? So absolutely be transparent. In terms of, this isn't necessarily dealing with recruiters, right? But you talk about this all the time, Taylor, right?

If you're a software developer, they'll let your profile link in. That is so crucial. A lot of times, right? I know there's a lot of polyglots out there and they don't care what tech stack, that's perfectly fine. I would argue we don't often get paid fees to go find polyglots. Typically, hire managers want to pay us to go check all the boxes, right? So I thought you profile. What else can I say? Job boards, you know, job boards are kind of becoming a thing of the past a little bit. I agree. I agree. You can still get some leads there, but I would say this agency recruiters about to hate me for this.

Take your phone number off there, just sort through it on email, right? Because I talked to candidates, I talked to candidates who get 40 calls a day, except though they're resume up on dice, and they can't keep up with it. and it's very overwhelming, right? And another thing, a little balance, right? If you're, let's say you just got laid off and you're a senior developer, you're getting absolutely blown up by recruiters. Don't be searching eight to six. Take some time for a walk, for some sunshine. Schedule some downtime, again, we, me and you, Taylor, we get exhausted for being on the phone all day, right?

So someone that doesn't do it often, needs to schedule some time. Yeah, absolutely. So, Bettina comes over the question, why are recruiters reaching out without looking at a Canitz profile? So, Hunter, obviously, this is something that plagues our industry. We don't read. I mean, I tweet this all the time. I think two things recruiters can do to exponentially help them is read and listen. Why do you think a lot of recruiters, especially agency recruiters out there, we just don't read and pay attention? Yeah, so especially early on again, you're going to be kind of tracked on your volume, right? Volume really, really matters. And a lot of people are kind of learning as they go, right?

So I remember I was looking, it was like my second week and I was looking for a SQL developer and I reached out with a message that said SEQUEL. Looking for you, you said that. Yes, I did. Yeah, I did. Same one show. Yeah, exactly. And the guy responded and he was actually very, he didn't even say anything about it. So when I found that email, like a year later, it was like, wow. But why do we reach out without looking at Canvas profiles? A lot of people are still kind of just learning, right? So we will do a Boolean search and we're looking for a React developer.

Let's say you haven't done React in three years, but it's in your skills. So maybe you popped up, so we're going to reach out anyway just to kind of, hey, maybe this person's a React developer. I don't know. If I do that, I'm generally going to reach out with the matches that says, hey, are you still doing react? I have a real deal. But a lot of you. Yeah, it's volume. I mean, listen, a lot of these big recruiting firms, you know, I think I think Hunter, the reason why I like Hunter is he approaches it from a relationship first standpoint, which is what I really admire about him.

But a lot of recruiters, I mean, even when I started out at Baker, we were high volume and I just blasted people. So it's it's unfortunately a consequence of our industry. LA comes in with two questions here. Why are recruiters often not involved in hiring junior developers? Yeah, so there's a fee. This is gonna be blunt and I apologize, but there is a fee, right? Typically companies are paying us 20% first year salary, 25% now in the world. That's not going in our pockets for the right. That's not going in our pockets. No, we've got C-suite, we've got accounting departments, We've got HR, we've got a large apartment, yeah, no, that's not going to pocket.

So, but there's a lot of supply out there. Or sorry, there's a lot of, well, no, actually on the junior side, there's a lot of supply and not a lot of demand, right? So there's a lot of people looking for their first software development job. So let's say company X down the street is looking for a junior developer. If they post that, they're probably gonna get 30 applications in 24 hours from junior devs, they just crash. Try 300, I think. Yeah, maybe so, right? But Point is, a lot of developers are applying to junior jobs. So they don't need us to go find them. It's a simple.

Yeah, I mean, the recruiting agency, remember there's two types of recruiters out there. There's the internal corporate side, that's not Hunter and I. And then there's an agency side. You pay us to go find the things you can't find. Right. Right? And so everybody can find a junior developer, right? So that's why. Ellie comes in again. What does your favorite candidate do that you wish every candidate would do? I love this. Especially focusing on the most junior and the most senior candidates. That's a good question. I like it when people take an interest in me and will ask me like, where did you grow up?

You know, what do you like to know? I don't know. How did you just want us to feel seen? That's all. I want to be friends with everyone, right? I want to be friends with everyone, right? So build the relationship on a personal level with us. And again, if we think of you as a friend, we're much more likely to maybe reach out with a role rather than the person we talk to once a year. You know what I mean? So yeah, just be very personable with us. Be again, transparent. I can't tell you how many candidates just aren't transparent, very cold. So yeah, I know there's probably more to that answer, but that's kind of what comes to mind at first.

anything else you had there, Taylor? I would say, obviously what Hunter said, but if I want to give more context above what Hunter just said, I would say openness, complete openness to take on whatever we ask. So like, hey, listen, we really need you. We really need you to take this evaluation. And instead of going, no, I don't take evaluations, but like, okay, why do you need me to take this evaluation? Well, it actually takes, it actually takes out a step or two if you take our evaluation. Okay, great. I'll take it. I think so many times, and I get it right. I mean, candidate, I mean, I try not to eval my people to death, but like at the end of the day, like we're only so technical.

Hunter and I, Hunter and I can get pretty in the weeds. I mean, I think for any hundred years that watch is down in the future, I think Hunter and I can probably get you a candidate 70% of the way there. Now the other 30% is the technical side that we just can't really dig into and so we have tests that we send It's the candidates that don't it's the candidates that aren't open to work really working with us and treat us like a commodity is Is frustrating so the candidates that are always checking in always open to do whatever we need them to do Those are the ones that succeed even on the most senior and the most junior.

Yeah I'm sorry. Let's see here. Another one came in too. Elliot again, Elliot, thanks for this man. I appreciate it. I literally, Elliot's putting this show on his back. I literally ween out recruiters by those that don't answer. Tell me about you, where are you from? What's something I don't know about you? I like that. Yeah. I like that. Great. Hey Taylor, quick comment real quick. I saw someone's summary the other day. And you've seen people throw emojis maybe on their first name on their LinkedIn because they want to see if it's just an automated message, which that even gets me, even though I am reading the profile because I still kind of have like template stuff I change, right?

I can't type out a 700 character message every single time I send a message, right? Yeah, we do have templates. We do have templates. I will admit with that, a lot of my outreach is templates And a lot of, you know, but the thing is though is the good recruiters, we craft templates where we're trying to just meet you. Oh, here's a pet peeve of mine. Do you want to know what a pet peeve of mine is, Hunter, right now? Is that? I say, hey, I'd love to chat with you. And the candidate goes to job, she goes, well, do you have any specific roles for me?

I'm going to say this. Bitch, I don't know. We haven't even had a conversation yet. So how in the world do I know if I'm going to have a role from you? Let me talk to you. Let's take the time to get to know each other so I can actually find you a role. There's so many candidates out there, but I get empathy, grace, understanding. I get it. You all don't want to waste your time. But the thing is though, is that if I'm reaching out to you and I'm saying, Hey, let's just have a chat. I just want to get to know you. Take advantage of that.

I'm not sending you like a templated email with 16 jobs. I'm trying to get to know you first. That's one of my big pet views. Let's see here. just in here, I also reach out from time to time to 100 and Taylor to just catch up. I think it helps you keep in mind when opportunity comes up, keep in line communication open. Also helps develop relationships versus just having business transactions with recruiters. Yeah, I mean, listen, I can't tell you enough the engineers that just check in and be like, hey, just want to give you a heads up. I'm not looking, but let's hang. I'm like, Oh, thanks.

Like, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Any thoughts on that, Hunter? No, yeah, absolutely. Or even if it's, even if it's something as little as reaching out to, you know, let's say you are actually looking, right? Again, me and Taylor talked to so many people. I might have talked to 10 reactives in the last week, right? And I maybe love my conversation with you and, you know, let's say, Canada A is is reactive. If they reach out to me every two weeks and say, hey, do you have anything for me yet? Do you have anything? Do you have anything? I might have honestly forgotten about you.

You know, we have systems in places. We I forget about candidates in a week. Right. I hate. I mean, listen, but again, we talk about we talked so many damn people. Yeah. Yeah. So so continue to check. Yeah, continue to check in with us just so you stay, again, front of mind or maybe he like hey maybe we just got to roll 10 minutes ago that could that could very well happen too so just check in with us every week or two so so Hunter one of the reasons why I created this show is for people to check in with me yes right like you know Elliot oh yeah Taylor's one I did want to say that so bad right but Elliot checks in all time right if Elliot needs a job like I know who I know what Elliot skill set is for the most part so like if If he keeps checking in, he's top of mind.

He's top of mind, right? It's all about top of mind. Hunter, as we wrap up here, do you have a hard stop at 10? No, I don't. So let's wrap it up here. What are just some, oh, tips for hiring managers real quick. Let's get into that real fast. What are just some general tips that you're tired of hiring managers doing? Yeah, so scheduling first round interview seven days out isn't working out. Oh, stop that shit. Yeah, he needs to be in the next probably two days, you know, make time, right? If it's not a priority, we need to hire. We need to hire. We need to hire.

Hey, Taylor, here's a candidate. All right. Seven days from now. Yeah. Well, not going to work. Not not. But it never works, especially as I'm going to work right now, right? Um, what else? Um, people are not doing six hour co take home co tests, right? You know, um, I actually, I had, I have a client who did this recently and I kind of I kind of like this. They said, Hey, first round is a 20 minute call with me, second round, they can either do a live coding assessment with me or a two hour take home. You get the option. So I literally tweeted that this morning, which is hilarious.

You said that I'm talking to a few hiring managers. I wonder if we're talking to the same hiring managers that that they're starting to get more creative and they're starting to be more flexible. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we have we have some clients now that are, you know, just doing they're doing one day interviews, you know, and they pick it, right, with three 45 minute sections and it's done, right? So speed is everything right now. Don't go so fast that you, you know, maybe completely botched the hire, right? But you know, if you're having them talk to two or three people and everyone has a good feeling, you're generally going to be okay.

Yep, absolutely. We got Stephanie coming in, OMG, I had a hiring measure request two weeks out. know what's on your calendar for the next three to four days. Yeah, seriously. I want to give props to Emmet. Emmet literally started his career at a startup, has three or four months of experience, got laid off and found a job within two weeks. And it came from social media. It's almost like it works. So Emmet, congrats, buddy. What else, Hunter? What else has we wrapped up here? Hmm. I would say, give yourself grace, you know, a lot of, especially on a technical interview, there are senior developers who have worked at some of the best shops in Nashville who will go do a tech interview somewhere else and they didn't tech out well enough.

There are different opinions in technology, right? They're just all. So if someone passes on you during a tech interview, just wasn't the right one, right? And I love this. I talked to a junior candidate probably about six months ago, fresh out of a boot camp, right? And there's a lot of differing opinions out there, right? Computer science, data structures, algorithms, that stuff matters, right? But this boot camp graduate who didn't really learn much of that in the boot camp, right? He would wake up after you graduate, you'd wake up every morning, go to the gym, come home and he would do, you know, like an hour to work the leak code exercises to like freshen up on that stuff.

Yeah. Right. So it doesn't have to be everything, but those things you don't know, especially as a junior developer, just carve out some time. Go make it happen. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of intentionality behind the job search interview process. And you really need to approach that process like it's a job, even if you have a full-time job, but you got to be intentional to carve out that time. I just had something pop in my head but I forgot. So anything else anything else for hiring major job seekers? No I will say too I talk to candidates sometimes who I talk to them for five minutes and they're like you can submit my resume now and I'm like I can't right because here's the thing yes we are the candidate advocate we are gonna fight for you we're gonna get you as much money as we possibly can things like that but sometimes you have to trust us and kind of know like hey that salary is probably about 10 grand to high.

Is there any flex? I'm not trying to like beat you down. I just don't want to price ourselves out right? So if you have a good recruiter that you trust you know talk through those things. I had a I had a can the other day that was like you know just wouldn't give me a number and want to be submitted and we just can't do that because we can't waste four interview steps for the client and then blow up at the end, right? So we are protecting you as the candidate. But at the same time, guys, just remember, like, we have to do a good job for our client as well.

Yeah. Yeah, I would say give give us ranges. Yeah. So you don't have to tell me where you're at, but just give me what your bottom line is and what your ideal is. And then really lean on us. I like ask ask us ask Hunter and I, where do I stand? How would you price me out? Because my thing is, is is 109 know the market better than most hiring managers. We know the salaries, we know the people, we know who can stack up at the 180 level and who can stack up at the 95 level, right? And so really ask your recruiters that you trust, where am I at with salary, where do I stack up?

Can I go get more? We'll tell you, I've had a few developers like, hey, I'm at 130 now, do you think I'm gonna go get more? And I said, no, you're probably at about 130. Right. So again, take that for what it's worth. All right, y'all. Well, Hunter, thank you so much. This was a blast. Stay on real quick as I wrap it up. I want to say bye to you all fair. You'll have a great one. I hope you guys enjoyed this. I would connect with Hunter. Hunter's a great resource. Please connect with him. And yeah, y'all have a great one tomorrow morning. I have my dear friend from Seattle.

Her name is Sarah Ray. She is actually a fitness person, But she works for a tech company called Vult Athletics. They use technology to solve fitness. And we're gonna talk about the four day work where her companies embrace that. We're also gonna talk about other benefits her company is doing. It's a startup and having to compete in the Seattle market as a startup is very difficult. And so we're gonna dive into kind of what keeps her there and what they're doing to retain talent. So that's tomorrow, Thursday we got Kent Dodds on Unicorn Finders talking about Remix, JS. Then Friday, what's Friday? Friday I have, oh, Alex Sheridan.

Alex is a big tick tocker, LinkedIn influencer quote unquote. He's got a wonderful mind around content. So that is Friday. So y'all have a great one. Go check the hunter hunter. Appreciate you, buddy. Thanks. Thanks. Hey, you did it. You listened to an entire episode and I am very grateful. Cause you know why? There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of episodes and I myself rarely finished an entire episode. So I appreciate you so, so much for listening. Quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the app store. I want this to be discoverable to others. And the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it, please, like right now.

Unless you're driving, then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me, Taylor at Vaco.com or at T. Dessin on all social media handles. And I hope you have a fantastic day.