productivity mindset w/ colin young

full transcript

auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

Hello, hello. Thanks for listening to Guidance Counselor 2.0. Listen, I want to give you a quick rundown of what this podcast is and what you're about to get into as you listen to these episodes. We had Guidance Counselors in middle school. We had Guidance Counselors in high school, but we didn't really have Guidance Counselors in college and now as professionals, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask a quick question to learn something about the job search or to navigate your career. And so that is what I want this podcast to be for you. I want it to be a tool for you to navigate the job search and your career.

So that being said, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you need to reach me, Taylor at vaco.com is how to get in touch with me old fashioned email social media at tdesint. D E S S E Y N. And finally, please rate and review this in the app store because I want this to be discoverable for others so they can navigate their careers. you enjoy the episode. Colin, give the people what they want. Who are you? What do you do? We'll go from there. Yeah, thanks for having me on and for setting the mood to candle. Do you always have the candle in the background?

I try to have. I'm a big candle guy now. Okay. Big candle guy. Well, no, I appreciate that. But my name is Colin Young. I work for a company called Exos. We are a human performance company. For the longest time we were a sports performance company, supporting a lot of folks. like those getting into the NFL Draft, a lot of MMB players, pre-spring training, golfers, athletes all over the world, you name it. And over the last 10 plus years, we've been getting more into corporate wellness. So employee benefits, that realm, operating fitness centers for large fortune 100 companies like Google and Intel. And so that's the space I went into.

I'm a strength coach by trade, but as that part of the business has grown, stepped into that space into management. So people management, account management on that side, operations. And then more recently, as part of our response to COVID, as you might imagine, physical fitness centers took a bit of a hit, one of the largest hit industries from a percentage standpoint. We had to make a shift, and so switching into the digital space, as well as kind of the human form of space outside of just the physical realm. So things like mindset, things like personal and professional development, and all those things are really, really interesting to me and I feel really lucky to work for a company.

It's got a great culture and also to do things that a lot of people just do with hobbies fitness, right? That's how, you know, I meet everyone through my wife who meets everyone through the gym. So, um, you know, so a lot of people just do it as a hobby and I get to do this career. So it's, uh, yeah. Yeah. So Colin, Colin DME, um, you know, and, and he was like, Hey, I want to chat. And little did I know, Colin actually just wanted to chat with me one on one, not actually on the show. And so but I thought he meant to show and so when I text him to I'm like, hey, man We're gonna go live he goes, wait, we're gonna go live.

I was like, yep, so So calling thanks for being flexible, but so talk about this product that you developed And then let's kind of get into it to get into why you developed this product. Yeah, well first off I personally developed nothing. I don't know operation side of things, but our company access you know for the longest time like you said we see people seen us as kind of a fitness company and you know, sports performance company and we know that we're so much more. We know that if we're trying to get someone to run you know, 439 versus 44040, which could be millions of dollars for that athlete in their pocket, right?

That isn't always going to be a physical thing that changes when we've only got them for eight weeks, right? So yes, there's mechanics, there's nutrition, there's you know recovery, there's all of that, but there's also from the neck up, you know, how can that person get that much better in under a huge amount of pressure, right? I know that your space is recruiting and we have said it for years of these guys are preparing for the biggest job interview of their life. And it just happens to be on the field in a lot of ways. There's a lot that people don't see as part of the combine process.

So, you know, for us, it's between that and saying, hey, look, we need you business differently in response to COVID. We can't just be a fitness center management company. So we are branching out into kind of more of that kind of performance mindset space, which is where I think the industry is going. So we've got coaching products, so it's a six week experience, where you get a coach, you're assigned to a small team, and you go through this experience that's designed to really help you just kind of level up, help you identify more clearly what you want to kind of get out of where you're at, and what's important to you, and then how to attack that, and then also how to maintain it.

So we know that a lot of those big experiences, I'm sure, you know, render was probably really great. Great experience for folks. There was a lot to learn. But when it comes to personal development and lasting change, I see myself in the business of behavior change. It doesn't matter whether someone's trying to squat a little bit better. A, I'm just trying to move a little bit better. That's behavior change, right? You squat one way and you want you to squat another way, all the way up to organizational change, right? Culture change. That's just behavior change on a really large scale. And so that's all we're trying to do here is shift behavior.

And we know that six weeks is just the starting point. You know, those weekend kind of seminar things like that. There's always great information and a great experience. But some of what we feel sometimes is just this giant hit of dopamine. That's part of this kind of like hormonal feedback loop for us. And so it's like, how can we create things that aren't just A, link to dopamine? That's just like, you know, get the hit of that. But also link to, you know, lasting change. How can I control this for myself? So that's kind of our approach. And we've got some really great contributors. We've hired a ton of people in the space of mental performance to flex a new muscle that we never had before to help us attack this in the right way.

I love that. So let's dive into kind of the productivity mindset. And again, I mean, you're helping mainly, Exos is NFL combine the athletes, helping them prepare. I mean, that's kind of y'all's like bread and butter. What, you know, and we kind of went over some topics, but in your mind, what are, If people are wanting to try to improve, behavioral change, I know for me, when COVID started, I had to completely redo my mornings. I've actually had to completely redo my entire life. You and I are new dads. That throws a wrench into everything too. So you can have a reprogram everything. What are some areas that people should focus on to maybe change behavior?

Yeah, that's a big question that we could, you know, we could do a series on this. And that would maybe never end because, you know, behavior change is certainly playing the percentages to some degree. We know what can help. But, you know, I'd say there's that the concept of if you look at it through this lens to start with, you know, quality behavior change is going to come through three concepts. So autonomy, so that you have to feel like this is part of my journey and create a habit that works for you. So you probably trial and error at a bunch of your mornings, right?

It wasn't someone telling you what to do necessarily. So you've got, you're the expert in you and we say that all the time for our coaches. Like, this isn't a master class. We're not going to talk at you, right? We're going to ask some questions to help you come to those realizations yourself. You know, mastery, it's got to be something if, you know, we would send things with diets why diets fail. Like if you can't see yourself doing eating the same meal, you know, six months from now, it's not gonna work, right? So you have to feel like, hey, I've got some level of competence in what I'm doing here.

And that's really, really tricky. You know, when you talk about both from the fitness and nutrition side, but also when it comes to things like mindfulness and stillness and things like that, I'm like, oh, you need to meditate 30 minutes a day. It's like, well, let's start with one minute, you know? So, you know, I have my mind goes in a million different places, there's no way you're going to give me to sit still for 30 minutes, which is a whole topic we talked about. And then purpose, you know, so you've got it, it's got to be tied to like clear unambiguous goals. Like you have to understand what you want to be able to really make that change.

Change is really hard. Like we're hardwired as a species to kind of put as much on autopilot so we can keep our awareness in survival mode. And so if we don't understand why we want to make any type of change, whether this is a career change, whether this is a life change, whether like my wife and I were talking about moving across the country with the baby, like we've had that conversation like this is why we're doing this is a big deal for us, right? And so you've got to have that clear and ambiguous goal for yourself, which is harder than you think to identify.

Because change is hard and it's going to take a lot and you have to come back to that anchor as it gets tough. So that's the start. That's kind of the larger concept. I love that. OK, so summarize that again. A ton of me. It's got to be your journey, right? Someone's like, I tell you what's going to last. Master, you got to be competent on it. You got to feel good about it. And then purpose. You got to have a clear and ambiguous goal. So I want to dive into something, too, because obviously I talked with your wife about it. For those of you who caught with this Sarah Jane episode, Sarah Ray episode that that is as Colin's wife.

And so I do want to talk about mindfulness, stillness. That's something that I haven't really done ever. And I'm actually realizing the more moments that I can be still and what does that look like? That means sitting on my porch without my phone in a journal like a pen and paper. it's taking my corgi for a walk, right? A little bit longer for walk, right? Those are stillness activities. And it has actually helped me. So what's your encouragement? And I guess tied into athletes too, because I am fascinated with how you're instilling that from an athlete perspective. Yeah, no, it's interesting how many times meditation has been like re-braving in corporate speak, right?

It's like 15, 20 years, is meditation, and it was this yogi thing and whatever. And then there's an HBR article and it's mindfulness, and all the CEOs are doing it. And now it's like, oh, well, that's kind of gotten a little tongue in cheek, and now it's stillness, which I like. For me, you know what's funny is where you find inspiration. For me, where I was like, oh, that's really the light bulb of what pushed me over the edges. As you mentioned, we both have young kids. Do you watch Bluey? I know we're not Bluey fans kind of. We're more Daniel Tiger fans. Okay. All right.

Well, we haven't branched out enough because he's just started, you know, being able to consume any type of media, which is good and bad. But anyways, there's an episode where the dad was laying down and he's, you know, I'm practicing not being distracted. Right? And I was like, that's a really interesting way of putting it, because that's a really critical thing and skill that we need to master that's getting more and more difficult as there are more and more distractions out there on our phones, at work, everywhere. And that's kind of how I've looked at it as a big piece, but there's so many other benefits, too.

But that was kind of the tipping point for me of like, Oh, I want to be able to assign the level of focus that I think these tasks deserve. And I can't do that unless I build that muscle. And that takes practice. And so, and that's not always work, right? Like for me, the reason the task is being present with my son. It's like moving the phone literally to the other room, turn off work and just being present with my son. And I found how difficult it was, like the first week that I did that I'm reaching for my phone in my pocket for literally no reason.

And so, it's like it takes so, I can't be fully present with him if I don't practice that. And so same thing at work, right? Like you're trying to really get the most out of it and find this level of, I think, fulfillment for a lot of folks is what you're looking at, that purpose. And it's tough when you feel like I'm going, you know, I've got 1% in 100 directions versus 100% in 100%. Which a lot of that is certainly company culture, et cetera. And so as a manager, like I try everything I can to do for my staff there. But at the same time, there are some things that we can do for ourselves.

So it's great. I love that you called this kind of the productivity type episode because we talk about it all the time. Well, our coaches about coaching other individuals, it's not about doing, it's about being. So we ask people to do things. You say it's not about doing, it's not about being. It's not about doing, it's about being. And that's not my goal by any means. It's something that I'll probably get tattooed somewhere, whatever. But we talk about productivity, and that might be the end goal, but why? Why do I want to be productive? Like again, it's high to clear on ambiguous goals. What do I want to get more out of it?

And a lot of times it comes back to personal fulfillment, personal growth, feeling of leveraging my strengths, like a lot of those things that I know that you talk about in really positive cultures with other individuals. So, for that, it's okay, can I practice, can I take a minute, can I take five minutes? And it does take a little bit to build that up, but you're not going to get that over time, right? The cognitive benefits, like focus and clarity and creativity, come once you hit that 12 to 24 minute mark of stillness. And there's a couple different ways to do it, but it's one of the things you ask like, hey, if we're talking about being productive, it's almost like taking a step back so you can take two steps forward.

It's like, hey, I clear everything out, create the space to then bring things like creativity, curiosity, then you can be gritty. You can't be gritty without recovering, without taking that time. And so I think stillness is something that I could, you could have called it a stillness episode and I'll talk about it the whole time. So what if what if we just stayed still and looked at each other for Yeah, man. And then we'll talk about it. Now we now be awkward. We we'd have to clear the room if you and I were making eye contact exactly exactly. I want to give some comments. So Christina comes in and goes, yes, change happens in small increments Chelsea, what a fantastic must that another mustache?

Yeah, it's so good. It comes in, go small change in the right direction. That's a great mindset. So easy to jump in too quickly then burn out or give up. And I want to go to burn out next. We'll come back to this topic. Pia comes in 50 minutes of mindfulness every more than props to you. I would just not to make too many but just snap judgments. I would assume Pia is just a better human than all of us. The amount of metal fortitude it takes to do that she didn't do that all the way she jumped right in 50 minutes. There's a lot of work that happened in the day.

A lot of work. A lot of work. Yolanda, Bluey, what's going on Chelsea goes in here Bluey alright so we got some Bluey Bluey if you're looking for sponsorship I hope you know yeah yeah my stash lags and blue yeah that's the takeaway it's here exactly must ask and bluey if you get anything that's right oh man I want to talk about burnout because I think you know it was interesting I was listening to one of my what my develop around tables that I did up in Cincinnati a few few weeks back and I made a joke there's a engineering manager that was talking about like like remote flexibility and about how he works more hours.

And I joked to said, yeah, remote allows me the flexibility to work more hours. And so, you know, I know people struggle with burnout. I mean, I think everybody in some way, shape or form is dealing with burnout based off your experiences, both obviously with Exos and obviously personal. What's some key takeaways that people can take away from the show on burnout? Yeah, there's a lot that goes into that, right? And we don't, like a lot of times people will tie in burnout to like mental health and we don't necessarily, I think that's a stigma that we don't necessarily go in, right? We're definitely playing in our way of performance mindset and parts.

But when it comes to burnout, there's, I'd love to talk about grit, right? that's a lot of times where people I think might misunderstand what what great is and because burnout comes from just I'm white luckling this situation right and just putting more hours in and putting more time in and I think that's just like with our athletes that's the first thing we talked about when we worked with the seals and the tactical space like the the first thing that we talked to about was recovery and restraint. And I think those two concepts are really critical when you're talking about burnout. Because when people hear grit and gritty, a lot of times it's very positive moniker.

And it certainly is. There's an element of mental toughness and optimism of, hey, I can see you away through this somehow. But a lot of times people do that just by just doubling down and tripling down on time and energy in there. And that's one of the first things we talked about with our athletes and then with our corporate athletes and part of this program which is you be surprised at how little we actually do with our athletes in the gym to be honest. Like a lot of our time is spent out on the turf and on the field like helping them just move mechanically better.

Like the actual time that they spend lifting weights is actually fairly small. You don't need that much stimulus, especially those guys where they might be getting it, you know, on the field and practice and those things like that. But like one of the first things we talked about is recovery, like sleep and those things like sleep is a natural performance enhancer. Like if you wouldn't need PEDs, PEDs wouldn't exist in a sport if people could just recover instantly. That's all that like testosterone, HCH, all that does, it doesn't make you stronger. It helps you recover faster so you can train harder. Like that's the whole point, right?

So sleep and recovery, right, allows you to bounce back and get more out of that next training session or that next, you know, kind of problem-solving session, that next block that you're putting there, some writing or creative work, whatever it is. But that doesn't happen without that recovery component. I think that's the most, the piece that that goes miss the most. And then there is the concept of sleep. There's a concept of mindfulness or stillness or those practices. There's a physical recovery, whether it's cold plunges or soft tissue work or those types of things. But I think the other element that I think it's missed is the restraint component.

That's you. Yeah. It's something you're struggling to do. Yeah. No, go ahead. You do everything all the time. Yeah, I think. So a little quick story, story time real fast. I think, so I've struggled with eating for a long time. And I meant like eating clean and eating properly. And one of the things, and I'm just being totally vulnerable here, my work is very metrics out, like very numbers like you know I'm in sales right it just is what it is right I'm just in sales and so you know my excuse for so long was I don't want to put myself on another plan because my entire life is already I'm like my like Madonna over here but like my my entire life is already on a plan I don't want at work I don't want my my at-home life to be that way too right so I struggle with it, I've wrestled with it for a long time.

Well, now I'm probably, I would say, am I still where I need to be eating wise? No, but I'm a lot better than where I was. I've lost more weight. I'm the most fit I've ever been now. I've moved the best I've ever moved. I've had very bad tendonitis in my feet for a long time. I started eating healthier. That slowed down. Also my orthotics I wear around the house also do help because I'm an old man. All that to say, what I realize is restraint and discipline actually gives you more freedom. And I hate to say that. I can't believe I'm saying that now, but I track all my food for the most part, as best I can, especially during the week, for my macros.

And I actually know exactly where I'm at and what I actually can eat because I actually track it. And so I really truly believe that if any of y'all are watching this today and you're struggling with disciplinary strength from one person who struggled with it to another, like lean into it. So go ahead, that's the whole story time on my part. Now that's, I mean, that's a phenomenal story. I'm glad you're on that journey. I know how hard it is, right? I mean, even just being in the field and knowing all this and then having a baby and just having it like turn everything on its side.

It's like, okay, like suddenly I'm eating goldfish crackers. I'm in a goldfish cracker in like, you know, 15 years. So, but yeah, so when it comes to restraint, right, We have to understand that everything has a cost. That's another concept that we talked about, both good and bad. Like if you're going to bed early, what are you giving up? You're turning off the laptop for a time. Like what is that giving up? But at the same time, again, when it goes back to that concept of being versus doing, and it is tied to stillness a little bit of, what's the cost of just continuing to go?

And eventually it is gonna be burnout. And again, that can be fueled by company culture, but it can certainly, a lot of that can be controlled by how we view our own space and how we do to control our own space. And it's so easy to think like, I have to put this meeting on account. Like for example, for you, it's 750, we started chatting at 715 Pacific time, but like having this call the week after year and render all day, like what do you do with your calendar, right? And it's really challenging, especially if you found a space, which I would imagine you have of like, I found my purpose in my calling.

Like this is, you know, a lot of times people think of it always as balance. And sometimes that's challenging because when you're passionate about it, you don't seek work life balance. I think that's oftentimes something people seek when they don't like work because they want the other part of that balance. Yeah. You know, when you, you know, paired your career with your passion, like you seek more of it. And it's really challenging to take that time. But, you know, I see you and I friends who I see all the time, you're spending time outside in the space with tearpoint walks, those types of things are great elements of that.

But I'd say really look at your own habits and especially how we interact with our phone and social media, I think that's a really tough one that you can just easily get sucked in and just try to exercise a little bit of restraint here. They're like, put, and make it easy for yourself, right? That's where like atomic habits and that kind of book, like just create enough friction, like put the phone in the other room, or put the snacks either don't let them in the house, or you put them in a place that's a little bit more challenging to get. So just make that easier on yourself because you've only got enough willpower and cognitive function throughout your time.

It's funny to be able to do that. It's good, it weems over time, right? That's why everyone's, yeah, there you go. Yeah, we've been able to do that yourself. A trail mix in my office. I'm so busy during the day, I never eat this. Like even if it's in here, it just doesn't bother me. But if it's like lunchtime, it's in front of my face, I'll eat it. But like Jackie and I will eat this whole thing in an hour if it was in front of us. So what are we doing? We moved it to my room, right? And I think what you said too, about the phones.

And I think as dads, you know, being a little, you know, going into little personal stuff, like I feel like dads don't have that community when they have kids, right? And I remember like holding my daughter and like being on my phone. I just didn't know how to be, right? Like I think in today's world, everyone talks about going and doing and the next. And I am wrestling with that right now personally, just in my career. And it's like, you know, especially when a kid's involved in, especially dads, like we're not, we don't have the motherly like instinct, right? Like it's just not, some guys do and props to y'all for having that instinct.

I was not born with it whatsoever. And so that's something that I've really had to realize like, you know, and I've talked to other dads about it too. Like my daughter's on the couch and I'm just like, I pull out my phone while she's washing TV and instead of like interacting with her, maybe turn the TV off and playing on the floor with her, we're both just on screens. And it's like trying to retrain your brain. And I think that's big too, right? It's the retraining. My morning routine is the retraining that no one talks about. Yeah. There's, there's again, you talk to a lot of like hard chargers.

Like, I mean, you're, I, I had to pick on you, but you're a perfect example, right? someone who is in a lot of ways in love with their job, it seems like great company culture, like you're just in a really great space, have purpose, you're able to help people, which I think is our own happiness is tied to what we can do for others, which is why I'm so grateful for what I do as well. And it's, I say, hey, I might tell you, hey, go do a cold plunge every day, or go exercise, or go do that, and you're like, okay, cool, I'm gonna try to fit into my schedule, right?

but if I was to tell you like sit, you know, still without any technology, like you probably get, you probably get sweaty palms right now, right? Yeah, like you even say to me, yeah. Yeah, you just get a little anxious about it. It's crazy, like I could give you one, I could give you 10 more things to do and you'd be all about it, right? Let's talk about circadian rhythms and getting light in the early morning and then right before the sun goes down to sync you up. Like let's, you know, so get outside and get for a walk, like exercise, make, go be in nature.

like all those things are great. But the foundation of this is if you miss out on the concept of what is supposed to be brought forward in a lot of those spaces, which is bring some self-awareness. Now we're talking about like emotional intelligence, those types of things like bring some self-awareness of like what is my own internal state? How can I then focus and be my best for the tasks that are really important to me? Which is again, as a parent, I think there's almost no better importance. But again, you can apply that to whatever it is. But like you say, hey, this is what it's gonna take to really be dialed in, get focused.

We didn't even talk about the concept of flow state of like when you're so immersed in something that just time goes away, like you're just so locked in and you do it because it makes you happy and you're so immersed in it. Like it doesn't happen without kind of that focus on the being and that step back. So aside from the bluing the mustache, if people get anything out of this, it's, you know, hey, can we take a few moments to step back? Yes, the goal is eventually to go with that, to give us more, you know, creating more of those reserves. But, you know, that's the end goal.

That's going to take time. And so that's what we're trying to get at from like two minutes of meditation or whatever it is. Take a second. It doesn't have to be like meditation in the simple, you know, the traditional sense of focusing on the breath. Like there's just, there's so much you can do with your breathing, just so much you can do just, you know, from a kind of an unfocused kind of meditation same point of like just let your thoughts come and go, trying to remove judgment, all those types of things. But just be and find that time within your day to do that.

Like that's the foundation of a lot of what we're talking about here. And that's going to allow you to be more productive in the long term. But hopefully allow you to be happier, be more present and get out of your own situation right now where you want to. Yeah. And Dev comes in. I overwhelm myself with projects because I like doing this. There's there's no work life balance saying with me, not sure if it's good or bad at this point. I mean, I'll tell you this, I never wanna judge anybody's situation, right? Like is it bad? I don't know, like is it hurting parts of your life?

You know, I will tell you this. I think, I think for me with my projects as well, like you gotta strike a balance. Like you just have to strike a balance. And, you know, my thing is, is it gonna, so I don't know if this is a right mindset to happen. me is like, is it going to benefit me right now? And obviously not like immediately, but is it going to benefit me in the short term? Then I'm going to do it. If it's not going to benefit me in the short term, it's more of a long play, then I don't need to do it right now.

And what I've realized, and I know that with meetings, right, if it's like a super important meeting, line them up, let's go. If it's, if it's a meeting that can happen three weeks from now, then let's just move that out. You don't have to overwhelm your schedule time and time again. Yeah, there's that kind of decision box of like, is it critical and is it kind of sensitive, right? Yeah. So, you're moving and shifting towards more of those long term goals and spending time doing some of those more meaningful things. I think that's the whole point. And there's, oh man, there's there's so many books out there about like, how do you build this at the power of habit?

I haven't. Yeah. I've read atomic habits. It's a great one that again talks about just creating a little bit of friction to create good habits for yourself. So I'll take a look at that one though. We're always looking for my staff. They've got an extensive reading list that we just, here's a stack of books and their physical books because we do want them to not be on electronics. Yeah, that's part of the onboarding process for us such as for my coaches. I love that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, go ahead. More than comes in here. I agree with strength comes off is so negative, but can be a positive influence.

Yeah, I mean, it's huge. What else, we're gonna say something else too, Colin. Oh, I mean, if you think about it too, like just the concept of like looking at your calendars, things like that, like Adam Grant talks about that all the time of like, it's not always time management, it's focus and attention management. And he talks about doing like one thing a day, which is, I mean, he's got full autonomy at this point over, but his schedule for the most part. But Andrew Huberman, who's got a popular black guy, like he talks about that a lot. So a lot of our influences and folks there.

But yeah, it's one of the more critical things. And can you take that time? One strategy we work on, there's circadian rhythms, which a lot of people have heard about, but there's also a concept of all trading rhythms, which talks about during the day. So one of the modules that we go through and not to be too much in our program is how do you set the perfect day? And it's really, yeah, so because again, it's not about contracting the muscle, we don't have an issue with that, we have an issue relaxing, right? And that allows us to contract again, like you can't keep a muscle contractive forever.

Eventually it will unfurl. But, you know, 90-20s, and that's not necessarily a new concept, but 90 minutes of work and then 20 minutes of recovery. And especially got to look at like visual fields and things like if you're on your computer looking at like small print and things like that and on calls a day, like that 20 minutes should not be on electronics. And that's where the concept of restraint comes in. Am I stepping away from work only to spend 20 minutes on my phone, which doesn't, that doesn't give us the full kind of restorative benefit there. So like again, how we interact with technology is really kind of mess with our brain in quite a bit.

So like that 90-20, again, If you can start to build your calendar a little bit about that and then you stack something like a minute or two of stillness or going for a walk, getting outside, getting something nutritious, hydrating those things in there. Hey, there you go. You're well under what I love it. Awesome. Well, Colin, last question I asked guests is this is guidance counselor 2.0 because I think came out of the titles. We had guidance counselors in middle school and high school, but now as adults, we don't really have guidance counselors. So I saw, I want to kind of be that resource for people.

What advice would you give your younger self when it comes to career stuff? Yeah, I think it's be authentic. That was one thing and I've worked for the same company. I've worked for Exos for 12 or 14 years and I've been lucky enough to be in a culture that does recognize performance. But when I managed people, I tried to step in from an individual contributor to a manager as we go and so many fields, right? You're a great engineer and then you manage engineers and you maybe try to model yourself after some folks that you've experienced the years or you respect in the field, things like that, and maybe also model who you don't want to be, right?

We've all had a tough manager or two or three or seven, depending on how long your career has been. But what I found was it took a while to find my voice, you know, for example, I, yeah, so it just, I would say be authentic in yourself throughout your career and don't try to replicate others. And then of course, you know, find some time to reflect. You guys, I'm sure out there, if you're spending time listening to Taylor and I, Gab here, you're investing in yourself and your career and or you just got nothing else to do and you're trying to fill the space. In which case, you probably just shut it off now and go take a moment or two, but you know, take some time for yourself to reflect and be grateful for everything that you have accomplished, can accomplish and will accomplish.

So say it be authentic and take some time. I love it. Well, y'all, thank you so much for hanging out with us this morning. Colin, stay on real quick so I can say bye to you. I would highly recommend Go Connect with Colin on LinkedIn. You know, again, he is just a great friend of the great resource. So, Colin, thank you again for sharing all of your nuggets with us this morning. And so we have a great slate of guests this week. I'm checking my calendar. So tomorrow we have Josh Seifert. Josh just recently ended up at Sonos as a DevOps engineer. He was one of the OGs on my show.

So we brought him back. I have a director of engineering, Adam Zephyr, out of Phoenix on Wednesday. Unicorn Finders, I'm not a fisherman, but Unicorn Finders on Thursday is actually highlighting a fisherman app that has 13 million fishermen on it, anglers. And then Friday I have a COO in town as well, who we're gonna talk actually about connecting sports to work. And so it's gonna be a completely sports episode. So it's gonna be fascinating. But y'all have a great one. Thank you for hanging out with us this morning. I'll see you out tomorrow. Peace. Hey, you did it. You listened to an entire episode and I am very grateful, cause you know why?

There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of episodes and I myself rarely finished an entire episode. So I appreciate you so, so much for listening. Quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the App Store. I want this to be discoverable to others. And the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it, please, like right now. Unless you're driving, then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me, tailor at vaco.com or at Tdaston on all social media handles. And I hope you have a fantastic day.