the shift to remote work and the power of content w/vp of software engineering, andrew moore

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Hello, hello. Thanks for listening to Guidance Counselor 2.0. Listen, I want to give you a quick rundown of what this podcast is and what you're about to get into as you listen to these episodes. We had Guidance Counselors in middle school. We had Guidance Counselors in high school, but we didn't really have Guidance Counselors in college and now as professionals, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask a quick question to learn something about the job search or to navigate your career. So that is what I want this podcast to be for you. I want it to be a tool for you to navigate the job search and your career.

So that being said, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you need to reach me, Taylor at vaco, VACO.com is how to get in touch with me old fashioned email social media at T D S and T D E S S E Y N. And finally, please rate and review this in the app store because I want this to be discoverable for others so they can navigate their careers. Hope you enjoy the episode. So let's get started. So, Andrew, let's give the people what they want. Who are you? What do you do? We'll go from there. All right. So, I'm Andrew Moore. I'm currently serving as VP of software engineering with a retail mortgage lender called Nations Lending.

Really, my background's been just about every industry you can imagine from manufacturing, advertising, finance, health care, etc. But most important to me, I've been talking a lot lately about content creation and really learning how to walk the walk that Taylor pushes on a daily basis. Well, and again, I'm really excited to talk about content while creating content, very meta. But first, I first I want to ask you, unless getting to the topic that you first talked to me about, and I'm going between my notes. So tick, talk for those of you who are streaming in, you're seeing my email right now. So I'd like to talk about about higher range jobs, because so changes in remote hybrid work brought on by COVID pandemic.

You talked about, so let's talk about about specifically on the hiring major side, you know, you brought up about having a larger pool of people to hire from, but how that's affect your organization on the backend. Can you talk a little bit about that, a little bit of thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely. Back in 2020, I think everybody has that whiplash story of, you know, we saw COVID coming, we knew that there were going to be changes, but then, you know, in my case, it was a, we're gonna do a trial run on Friday to see if we can work remotely as an entire company and then get the email laid on Sunday, by the way, don't come back.

And I think most people have a similar story. And what that did for us as hiring managers and companies was that we were already thinking about hiring remotely. And we had this in the back of our mind, some more mature than others, but then the pandemic really drove that into Overdrive. But now we have this opportunity to hire people all over the country, all over the world. And it comes with its own challenges, right? You know, in terms of how do we do compensation? How do we do performance management, time zones, all of that? Yeah. So, yeah, I'll never forget. It was, I don't think I'll ever forget this.

I was in the office. So again, I've never worked remotely until COVID, right? And I was in the office and one of our VPs was next to me And he goes, I could see us shutting down the office and maybe never coming back. And what was so crazy about that is at the time, in my head, I'm like, what are you talking about? I've spent eight years at Vaco onsite all the time and then I have the VP tell me we may never come back again. And obviously it's been a wild ride and I am still fully remote. And so that's all I wanna talk to you about.

Obviously I've pivoted, you've pivoted. What are some big things that you've learned? Let's go off a little off script a little bit. Just that you've learned over the last three years about being a leader in an IT organization. So first and foremost for me is you gotta be honest, honest with yourself, honest with your people because everybody approaches this differently and everybody feels differently. And sometimes being fully remote isn't what people want and that may vary day to day. So being honest to say that, you know what, I'm having a hard time, I need to go work at a coffee shop because I need to see people.

Sure. Or, you know, I don't feel connected with my team, or I don't understand anything about, you know, personal preferences and personalities, just because we haven't done the in-person thing. Yeah. You know, one thing you said to me is that you said that we could fake it easier when we were all in person. And I agree with you, but I want to hear what you mean by that. Yeah. So being what's the phrase, you know, managing by walking around, right? Yeah. So you can kind of get into the rhythm of, like you always say, showing up and go into the break room and talking to people and engaging as sort of autopilot.

But when you're remote, you don't have that opportunity. Presumably your co-workers aren't getting coffee in your kitchen. You may maybe that's how you've worked it out but it's not how it works here. So you've got to be intentional about your engagements. What? So the word that's really come out the last three years is intentionality. And I caught up with a CTO of a local startup here in Nashville in person the other week. and I talked about how I think I was way less intentional when I was in the office. Right. Like, I never did one on ones. In the office, never did. It was once a quarter.

And looking back on it, I'm like, holy crap. Because now, like, for me, one on ones is like a thing. And you can ask my team, I mean, I still do them. And I just feel that I think that people have struggled leading remotely, don't understand how intentional. Listen, leading remotely is very difficult. It is extremely difficult, but it can be done, but it takes a lot more effort, which is another thing I wanna bring up to, how have you all balanced creating new org charts? Because I really truly feel like managers, you should have more managers because you need smaller teams to manage remotely and be more intentional.

So can you talk about maybe some things that you all have done internally and retooled from that? Yeah, I mean, a lot of the remote work is kind of lent itself to a more agile structure. And we in software engineering, we're used to that, right? So we're used to the two pizza teams. We're used to starting. Yeah, two pizza teams, yeah. We're used to this idea, but coming into, when I joined Nation's lending, agile was a new concept. The folks that had worked there had worked there just as one team, right? Whether it's in its cross practice. So they were doing a lot of those things, but didn't have the ceremonies associated with it.

Right. So in my past lives being in person, sometimes those ceremonies felt a little tired. Yeah. We're forcing this because that's what agile capital A's as we should do. Right. But then when it comes down to remote work, there requirements. You have to go through these practices to keep engaged and to answer your question, you brought up, how do we address org charts, really with the size of our team and the people that we have, we've been really fortunate to be able to scale out and really change based on the demands of the industry, the market, the workload. So largely what it's looked like, it's looked like traditional software engineering teams.

We've had a few devs, we've had a few QA, we've had data plugged in, What we haven't solved is the operations cloud engineering component, which I know that's been a challenge pretty much my entire career. And I'm sure I'm sure there are others out there that have all feelings about it. That's awesome. Yeah. And then Jeremy comes in here goes if coworkers are grabbing coffee in my kitchen, they better be bringing snacks. Yes, Jeremy, an absolute must. So and I'm kind of looking at this too. You know, I want to talk a little bit more. Is there anything that you've implemented, Andrew, that is your secret sauce that you'd be open to sharing with other IT leaders that washes.

Because trust me, I get DMs. There's a lot of IT leaders aren't in the comments a lot, but they're passively watching. So any any like secret sauce things that you've implemented that's helped you scale. Yeah, when it when it comes down to it, the the one on ones are important. And when when you're a manager or a team leader, you know, you're doing one on ones with your direct reports, you're largely individual contributors. That's super important. And sometimes those one on ones aren't, you know, they're not, hey, give me the update of the work that you did this week. It's, you know, what I always ask a question, I call it my, my lighthouse question.

So if you had any job in the world that you could do, and sometimes that answer is not the job you're currently doing, maybe I want to be a lighthouse keeper, what would that be? And that really starts out that, that conversation of, okay, well, maybe you don't want to be doing what you're doing now, but I can find somewhere else for you in the company and the team, wherever. But then as you progress and you become manager of managers, it's really critical that not only are you doing one-on-ones with your direct reports, but less frequently you're doing, you call them skip levels or getting to know everyone or as many people on the team as it can be.

And I had a mentor ask me a question one time, and it was, how do you lead 100 people? And every word of that sentence is important. How do you lead 100 people is different from how you manage 100 people. And that number 100 could be 100, it could be 1,000, it could be 10,000 a million. And every time I've answered that question, it's been a different answer because you have different perspectives and things change. What, and Mark, Mark, can you expound your question here? How do you solve that? What skills does someone need to fill that role? Mark expound on what we were talking about because I'm not quite following.

Somebody goes, why is cloud ops always a red head to stepchild? I don't know. So let me ask you this. Do you still, because I'm kind of, depending on how you look at it with an IT organization, I'm either a director at Baco, pretty much a director or senior director. So I'm managing managers now for the first time in my career. Do you still do one on ones? Or do you still try to do one on ones with like all the ICs or do you only lean into your managers? And I'm just asking you as a friend live to try to just learn as well.

I absolutely do because when you become a manager of managers, you're putting a lot of trust in your managers, but when you first step into that role, You don't know how you're gonna work with that individual. You don't know what the team structure is like, what the culture is like. And it's important not only for you as a manager to understand how is the whole department doing, how are, what's important to people, but it also gives you an opportunity to really understand the competencies of that manager. So that if worse comes to worse, you have an opportunity to coach that person and really understand where they, where are they knocking it out of the park and where do we have blinders or blind spots?

Yeah, no, that makes sense. So let's move into kind of the job secret side of things, right? So obviously I think the notion is, oh, it's remote, there's more opportunities, which is true, but there's also a larger pool. So my question to you is, what's your advice to job seekers right now as a VP of engineering, who does a lot of interviewing and a lot of resume watching? So I'll tell you how can job seekers get ahead? Yeah, so I'll tell you first and foremost, I'm not sponsored by LinkedIn. If anybody's listening, I'm open. Yeah, I'm open. I just recently used the LinkedIn hiring tools and I think it's a really solid platform and I've used a lot of them and a lot of them are desktop based, but LinkedIn was really solid.

And the way that people were able to capitalize on that platform were to be an early supplier or an early applicant. Right. Within within 24 hours. So I posted a role and within maybe three hours, I think I had 80 some odd applicants in LinkedIn. And it was, you know, I posted it at noon, one o'clock central. And as I'm going throughout my day, I'm looking over and I hear the the LinkedIn things. Right. Right. And so it even turned into as I was going down for dinner, or swiping down and looking at candidates. And here's what threw up the red flag for me is all of the easy applies, right?

You ask some screening questions, right? But you don't get the opportunity to see what makes this candidate unique. So you see candidate name, maybe if they're interesting enough, you click in and look at the profile. But you can imagine if I got 80 applicants in four hours, what about these larger positions? Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're talking hundreds, hundreds of applicants, maybe, if not thousands. And so I'm not looking at each one of those, right? So the ones that really come to the top are early applicants, people that reached out directly and said, hey, I saw that you have a role that I think I'd be a good fit for.

So you like that? I love that because it's a, it may have been you that said it, so I apologize if it was. But somebody brought up that it's a percentages game. So if you have 100 applicants, maybe 50 of those are good fits and maybe two of those are ones that reach out directly. And so with that law of percentages, the two that reached out directly, maybe they're not as technically skilled as some of the other applicants in the bucket, but you've pushed yourself to the front of my attention and I can look at it and say, yeah, well, you can at least have a conversation and you've got confidence to say, hey, please consider me.

Let me ask you this. You know, I'm all about putting personality in the DMs. I know I get this question a lot. Some of them can be ultra cheesy. Like some of the DMs I get, I'm like, you went too far. Do you like a little personality or do you just appreciate, hey, Andrew, you know, title of the DM, recent job post on LinkedIn message. Hey, Andrew, my name is so-and-so, and I'm a senior.net developer with three years of experience. And I would love to, like, do you like, do you wane more on that or do you like, what up dude? Saw posting, would love to chat.

Let me know if you're interested in my DMs. Yeah, so those of you that follow me on my socials know, I've been trying really hard to be more conversational in my writing, because I'm an engineer and I fall back on technical writing a lot. And it's a little stale. It's not fun. It's not exciting. So I do like knowing that there's a person on the other side of the email, that it's not, because LinkedIn gives you that template, right? When you hit message, the hiring manager or whatever the button is, and it gives you the big spiel. If you send me that, great. You know, it shows a little bit of extra effort.

But if you've added the take in the time to understand what is the role, What is the company? What is the value that I bring to that position? Cause that's something you bring up a lot is just starting that, that first sentence with, Hey, thing we have in common or, Hey, I can do this for you. It is huge. Well, and, and, you know, and I, again, I, I eat my own dog food, right? So I literally had a call today, um, where they, this, this, uh, this company needed, um, project work, right. It's a small foot doctor. right? Then they needed an entire website, everything built right?

Desktop, mobile, you got it. I have had bad feet problems right? I am a 90 year old man disguised in a 33 year old body. I wore orthotics, I've had major feet issues. You know how I started off the call? Hey listen, I'm actually really excited to talk to you and I understand the need for this for this in your your business because I've literally gone through this. And guess what? The entire conversation changed because now me and the doctor were going back and forth because they were obviously talking about the platform, yada, yada, yada. And I was walking through my foot problem journey with the client and the rapport was so much better.

Oh yeah. Even to apply that same approach and that same result to tech leaders or just technologists in general, you oftentimes we're put in positions where we're talking with non-technical people. Right. And that varies by role, but technology in a certain context can be scary to somebody that doesn't understand it. Yeah. So I refer to engineers a lot as wizards and we can make anything happen. The question is, should we? Right, yeah, true. And so there's a certain confidence that comes with that. Like I just want the requirements. I don't need to worry about, can I do it? It's a matter of how I'm going to do it.

Right. A lot of non-technical people don't have that. So if you can start a relationship, particularly for those product owners out there that have team leads that they're pairing with, take that, take that opportunity to educate people and say, Hey, look, this is why I'm confident. It's not because I'm ignoring you. It's not because I don't think you're important. It's because I know that we can do whatever it is you're asking. I just need to figure out how are we going to do it and hopefully educate people along the way so that they can know what's possible. Yep, yeah, absolutely. LinkedIn user comes here, my company, we're going back to the meeting conversation before we switch a little bit.

My company used to have a split level meeting once per month with us software engineers. It definitely increased the rapport with both the VP and also my direct manager. I'm curious, what's a split level meeting? What is that? So I've done these before, I think. I think what he's getting at is you have sessions where you have, let's say VP is the top level, We've got the VP, we've got the manager, senior manager, and then we have the development team or the developers. Sure. I've done those in the past. You buy lunch, everybody get into a conference room. Obviously we're not doing that now. Maybe we're sitting on your coupons or what have you.

Right. Your mileage may vary, because I've seen them be really successful and I've seen them be cold and... Well, okay. So let's expound on this. So again, we're backtracking a little bit. What makes these type of meetings successful, especially especially your advice to the senior leaders. Yeah. Trust is the big answer. Obviously, there's no magic bullet to build trust and to have a developer, let's say a junior developer right out of school, right out of boot camp, wherever, there's no magic bullet to make them feel comfortable to raise their hand in a big setting like that. Right. But what I've seen work really well And what I've tried to do is let's start off those sessions.

Either we're doing them more frequently and we'll start off by just shooting the bull. Let's talk about hobbies, do ice breakers, what have you. And learn that we're all people. And then we can get into the meat of what's going right, what's going not so right. Or you just make it a larger session and work on it more intentionally in terms of getting down into what's working and whatnot. And this is a big conversation about inclusivity and inclusiveness. So I've been talking to a lot of people on LinkedIn lately about DEI. Inclusivity is a hard problem to solve. And there are a lot of great people on LinkedIn that have opinions and thoughts.

And Taylor, you've had some of them on your show too. Yeah. So I love all I think another thing too, you know, my tip for advice for leaders, and this is holding me accountable to you got to do the icebreaker stuff, especially remote. Like I'm I'm one of those guys that's like no bullshit. Let's just like cut to the chase. Let's have a seven minute meeting and get off on our way. But what I've realized is especially for leaders, like your team, your team wants to to know that you see them as like a normal person and not some work work thing. And so that's something I've had to get much better about and it gives me anxiety.

Like in full transparency, if my team watches this, I get anxiety talking about the weather. We don't talk about the weather, but like I get anxiety doing that because I feel like I'm not being effective, but what I've found in a remote setting is you have to do that. And I don't know if you've learned to do that or maybe you've always had that. It's as an introvert. It is really hard to not only talk to people effectively in a remote environment, but also, it's hard to get that voice out of your head of they don't care what I have to say. Maybe it's a little bit of imposter syndrome.

Whatever that is, somebody tell me I'm not the only one, right? right? But you know, it's it's it's important because it it does communicate, hey, I care about you as a person. Right. And it it also shows that no, I'm not just a robot. I just act this way because I'm an introvert. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Same. Same. Yeah, Bill, going back to our last conversation where we're just talking about reaching out on LinkedIn, you know, again, good to know, Again, this is why I have managers and VPs on the show so you can literally hear specifically from their mouths what works, what doesn't. Oh, so Mark was just talking about what was your role that you were open in the skill sets?

Oh, actually in that case it was for a work day administrator. There you go, work day administrator. Not many of those folks run around. Late to the party, John, it's great to see you. Matt, I think I saw something that if you aren't there within the first 20, I think you applicants. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. It's yeah, you need to be on it. Jeff, it's great to see you as well. The LinkedIn user agreed I got hired by Connect with Decision Maker about a video game called Dark Souls. It works. Bring it up. Introverts of the world unite separately.

That's freaking funny. I'm a social vegan. I don't do meats. Y'all are You all are funny. You all are funny as hell this morning. I love it, I love it, I love it. All right, so let's move on to kind of the last part. You know, and again, right, I don't want to glance over the inclusivity thing. That could be a whole nother part, because maybe you and I could do that in person, right? When we're gonna do our in person pod here in a few weeks. But yes, managers, when it comes to inclusivity, diversity is one thing. And I've learned this, so I had Josie Haynes on my show.

Josie is a former VP of engineering at Tile. She was head of DEI and she learned me. She learned me. Diversity is different than inclusion and to be mindful of both takes a lot of effort. Yeah. Go listen to that episode and connect with Josie too. Oh yeah, she's amazing. She's absolutely amazing. All right, so last topic, getting into here, obviously my favorite, social media networking. So Andrew, I wanna hear your thoughts on this. So as an introvert again, and maybe that was an intentional segue, if it was all done. But as an introvert, it's always been hard for me to throw myself out on the internet because it's, hey, here's a thing that I know or here's an opinion I have and oh no, it's gonna turn into a flame war.

As long as you don't do VIM versus EMACs, it's fine. But the thing that I've learned, I've been doing this for about six weeks, more intentional social media. I've noticed it, I've noticed it. It is because of a video that you did the another hiring manager that was having issues with delivering. Yeah. We've been developers for so long. We get sprint wise delivery. I get to deploy something two or three times a day. It gives me that dopamine hit as a VP. You get that once a year if you're lucky, right? Yep. And that's not a good place to be as a person that is by yourself at home.

Right. Correct. So what I've, what I've started doing is just trying to learn how to do social media networking and largely been doing it on LinkedIn because that's good. That's comfortable to me. Critter is still like standing on the edge of the void and screaming into the darkness. It really, it really is. It's a lot. I always tell folks to just do LinkedIn for now until you start to get into the rhythm. But what are some things that you've noticed, man? I mean, obviously you've been up six weeks. I would say you're still very, very new and young in your journey. So I don't know if you've noticed much, but can you give some encouraging words?

Yeah, so first and foremost, I've learned to not think so much. Yes. Because yes, you can there there's a whole school of thought and there's a professional practice of managing social media to a degree of effectiveness. And there are optimal times to post and there are optimal days and there's metrics and KPIs. And if that's your thing more power. We needed that to another episode. That's all about their episode. I love it, so. Right, but don't think so much. You know, I got into the bit of I need to write long form posts and then someone said I need to write short form posts and then I need, forget it, just write the thought and get it out there.

And if you got a picture to put on it, great. But if you don't, it's fine. It's the consistency that's the key. And that's how I've met so many other people that are in similar situations or had things to offer just because I was engaging with people's content and commenting, posting myself and really just meeting people. So in six weeks, and again, for those of you who were either tuning in later or missed it, Andrew's been on a social media journey for six weeks. You've already seen a difference with networking. Oh, for sure. Yeah, to get down to specifics, I was having a conversation, I think it came from from Josie's link.

And I got on some sideways tangent as you do. And I wound up meeting a person who was also a DEI expert. And just in talking with her, found out one, she lives about 30 miles north of me. So hey, neighbor. And then I found out that, oh, you own a company that provides a service that I need desperately. And oh, this company is vastly different than any other service provider in the same space. Cool. It's just serendipity. Crazy, crazy. Again, it's not hard, but you definitely have to. Let me ask you this, right? Cause cause I'm all about kind of like, you have to break the cycle to try to like start posting and it's a different, do you have a set schedule?

Is there anything that you hold yourself to? Do you have a reminder? Do you like, what's, what's kind of your cadence there? Yeah. So I'm not very good at that yet. I've, I've, I've been good in spurts, but I'm, I'm finding that posting online is, it holds a similar hit to the introversion is talking to somebody in public. Interesting, okay. It sneaks up, it's snuck up on me, especially over the holidays because I started getting that anxious feeling in the back of my head, oh, you have to post. I don't have anything to say. Right. What I try to do is until LinkedIn recently released their scheduled posts, I was using Buffer, to score up some ideas and schedule out some posts.

I try to post the about 11.30 because that seems to work. And I'll do it once, twice, three times a week. And it's feast or famine these days, but that's kind of the idea for me. I love it. I'm just making sure I don't miss anything from the notes you sent me. So let me ask you this, as a VP of engineering, and we'll wrap up on this comment right here. You know, you said as a job seeker, build a network for yourself out there, make sure you're job hunting like you would in person, but digitally. Based off what you've seen in the six weeks of you putting out content as a manager and just networking, what would your words be for job seekers with that strategy?

It's very important to have a network, obviously from what Taylor's, following Taylor's gospel. It's important to have a network. And I suspect a lot of us at least once in our careers have had a network deliver a job. And generally that's in person because that's how we've worked for the past forever. Using tools like LinkedIn and Twitter, you can do the same things, meeting people, talking to people, really increasing your online brand so that that that personality that you have is represented in your online presence. And then when the time comes and you need support from that network, they already know who you are, what you're about, what you can do.

And at that point, you're just leveraging those relationships because you've been building them, right? Let me ask you this. So last question before you wrap up with just one or two more questions. So not the last question. If I'm trying to make a point here, so I'm going to see if you can take my bait. All right. If somebody were to reach out to you. So let's say you have two people reach out to you. Same skill set, same years of experience around the same salary point. In one person that you see on LinkedIn is super active. And the other one doesn't post at all.

I'm not. Don't come with me with pitchforks comment users here. I'm just saying in general first glance, who you talking to first? The person with the presence. Exactly. Again, now, now, now, the argument could be, well, that person with the presence could be a phony and they don't know what to talk. True, very much true, right? Very, very much. But Andrew should be able to sniff that out pretty quickly if he's a VP of engineering. It becomes progressively harder to fake it the more you do it online because at some point the veil is going to come down. Exactly. Right. Yes. Yeah, 100%. Cool. I just wanted to answer that.

here, Jeremy comes in. Good reminder that perfect is enemy of good. We can spend so much time trying to prepare. But listen, I say this all the time. I said this in multiple videos. I've posted some shit that I thought was gonna just pop off and got like three likes. And I've posted like a random thought that got 30,000 impressions. Like it just, I will challenge you this. The posts that you're worried about will probably, I'm trying to think about it. The post that you worry about and agonize over will probably do better than the ones you think are gonna hit. It's usually the opposite.

And then Matt coming in. So 10 to 12, in my experience, I usually like to do like first thing, but yes, anything in the morning time for LinkedIn's go, so you gotta think about it. Business people are usually on LinkedIn in the mornings to post updates, to post about new jobs, to all that. So yeah, I would say anytime before noon, in my experience is the best. All right, so Andrew, Oh, Colin, what's up, buddy? It's good to see you, man. Sorry I never said bye to you in Texas. We need to grab lunch soon. I'm sorry, I love you. So what tech trends, technologies, are you looking at right now, Andrew, that you're pretty excited about?

Yeah, so I don't want to start the flame war, but artificial intelligence, it's the future. We can talk to that GPT, whatever that is, and that's another podcast in and of itself. But if you watch LinkedIn, if you watch social media, it's such a polarizing use of technology that almost solidifies it for me, that's where the world is going. And being able to use that is what's going to differentiate, not only software businesses, but brick and mortars too. I love it, I love it. Last question, because we had guidance counselors in middle school, high school and college, but now as adults, we don't really have them.

called therapist now, which I'm a big fan of. What would be your biggest piece of career advice to your younger self? I'll go back to it again. Don't think so much. I love it. I love it. I got I get hung up in job performance, career performance, KPIs, five year plans, the whole nine yards. But at the end of the day, when I'm most successful is when I'm when I'm thinking about the big picture and just delivering on what I need to deliver day to day to get to that big picture. I love it. I love it. Well, y'all, thank you again for hanging out with us today.

We appreciate, I appreciate it. I know Andrew appreciates it as well. Go check with Andrew on LinkedIn. He's posting more. Engage with him. So go connect with Andrew. Also again, connect with everybody here, right? Again, I do this as a platform for others. This is your networking, right? Now, Now I still encourage you to go to conferences and go to meetups if you can, but if you are more comfortable, network with everybody on the show. I'm very, very positive. It will help your career. For the rest of the week, so tomorrow, I have Kimberly Bryant. We're back with a render speaker series. She leads Black Girls Who Code.

So very, very excited about that. And then we are live with unicorn finders Thursday to talk about outlier outliers really cool. They are out of Austin. I caught up with their founder CEO in Austin this week or last week. They're basically like travelocity for sports betting. So check it out. It's going to be cool. And then Friday we're back with another guidance counselor to Sydney Samson. She's out of Oakland doing amazing amazing things in the Oakland community around tech. So great, great week of shows. Hopefully you'll have a great rest of your Tuesday. Connect with Andrew and your stay on so I can say bye to you and y'all have a great one.

Take it easy. Peace. Hey, you did it. You listened to an entire episode and I am very grateful because you know why? There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of episodes and I myself rarely finished an entire episode so I appreciate you so so much for listening. Quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the App Store. I want this to be discoverable to others and the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it. Please, like, right now. Unless you're driving, then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me, Taylor at Vaco.com or at Tdastin on all social media handles.

And I hope you have a fantastic day.