whole wide world out there w/ alana kilmartin who is an author, podcaster, and speaker

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auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

Hello, hello. Thanks for listening to Guidance Counselor 2.0. Listen, I want to give you a quick rundown of what this podcast is and what you're about to get into as you listen to these episodes. We had Guidance Counselors in middle school. We had Guidance Counselors in high school, but we didn't really have Guidance Counselors in college and now as professionals, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask a quick question to learn something about the job search or to navigate your career. And so that is what I want this podcast to be for you. I want it to be a tool for you to navigate the job search and your career.

So that being said, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you need to reach me, Taylor at vaco, VACO.com is how to get in touch with me old-fashioned email social media at T D S N T D E S S E Y N. And finally, please rate and review this in the app store because I want this to be discoverable for others so they can navigate their careers. Hope you enjoy the episode. Elena, let's give the people what they want. Who are you? What do you do? We'll go from there. Sounds good. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Even if I am sorry, if I have a bit spaced out, it's because I've been napping and now I'm away from you. You're very great. I'm so impressed. You look fantastic. It is great. I had everything laid out before I went to my 9pm now. So Alana Kim Martin, I'm the founder of On Serious Careers. And if you can't tell, as I said, from my accent, I am Australian. So I was raised in Australia and have really since the age of 18 kind of gone out into the world and explored it and realised there is a massive world out there and it has kind of changed everything I knew about careers.

So I thought I wanted to be a doctor when I was growing up. I was, I academically did quite well and then I realised I was going to be pretty bored in that career. And so my 20s have very much been this idea of experimenting, finding work environments that I thrive in, that I actually enjoy, and really creating a career that actually works in with my life, as you said. So at the moment, that looks like taking another official gap here, and if you're not familiar with the gap water gap areas, it's essentially a 12 month period. I like to call it between two phases.

So those two phases were my partner and I leaving New Zealand, and the next phase is, I'm not really sure where we'll be in the world. So we wanted to go out there, go and enjoy ourselves. But then for me to also be working on what I'm passionate about and that really is to help other people find careers that are less serious and more adventurous. So rather than taking the prescribed path to actually go and enjoy yourself and not just go, well, because I got this really great sport, I have to go and do this university degree or I have to keep getting raised after I was a commercial after promotion, how can you actually stop and take ownership of that and go, is this actually a life that I want that's being created by this career?

That's so good. That's so good. We had a few more people tune in. Domory, it's great to see you. Yeah, y'all stop with the coffee, please. Good morning from Sledi, Nashville. Morning from New Jersey. Melina got a referral for tech support specialist. I love it. Let me know how that goes, Melina. Kevin as well. Becky, it's great to see you. And JC is great to see you as well. So, Alina, I'm curious. And I think one thing, two things you say resonate with me. One, helping people, right? Cause I think, I mean, that's a passion of mine as well. And I think to not going the prescribed path, and I feel like, you know, especially in the U.S., right?

It's college, university, graduate, job. And like looking, I mean, my wife and I've had this conversation a ton, right? So she went to an art school for photography, and we talked about modern day institution in Yada Yada. We can go to that if we want to. I think it's totally broken. But I wanna see, we can go and kick it off. like how do people know what else is out there? Because I didn't, which is why I'm so passionate about this and what I do. Oh, for sure. And this is the, I always like to think of it all, is when do you get that exposure to a person, a place, an environment where it snaps you out of it and you go, well, hang on, I don't realize that was possible.

And I mean, I've been fortunate to have had a couple of those moments and it sounds ridiculous, but one of them was actually what I got dumped when I was 17 years old. And I was like, could us Lord, I was going to marry that person and then they dumped me and I was like, uh, what else could this possibly mean? And through that, I decided to take 12 months off after school before going to college to go and explore the world. And I went and lived and worked in Italy as an au pair over there. And I think that's what really kick started at all was just this one thing where I went, right, I'm going to go and do something different to what I thought I was going to do.

But I mean, it's very similar in Australia and New Zealand as to what it is in the US. and I'm quite familiar with the US because I've studied there and I've studied a lot of time there. But it is this idea is that here's a dumb thing and it's set up for you just to do that. It's not set up for you to go and do something different. And I think once you kind of get on that track, it's really hard to get off unless something happens like there is an event or you have an opportunity to say go and travel or work in a company that you didn't thought you would ever work for.

But if you don't have that kind of exposure to show you there is something else out there. I think that's what ends up happening. You just stay kind of on that track. And it kills me because there are so many young people in particular that come out with all of this passion, all of this energy for life, go down the prescribed path, end up with a massive tuition debt, and then go, well, I'm kind of stuck here. Like, I've just got to keep going and hopefully one day I come out higher. And I know, like in the US, if you've only got two weeks holiday every year, how do you go and do something different?

How do you go and What would you like to do? I want to explore the world. Yeah, absolutely. A few more people have tuned in. I have this great CU. Kaelin, I love it from St. Louis. Dev, my guy from Cincinnati, college is terrible at showing the world out there 100%. And then Becky goes, I spent six months in Australia. I love that. So, I'm curious what your thoughts are on this because my wife and I've been actually talking about this a lot. So, I traveled a little bit as a kid, but it wasn't travel travel, right? I'm talking about fly out to Europe or wherever and just backpack it up or just travel like true, true traveling.

And I've actually been, I've actually been thinking about a lot because I have a daughter who's two and a half years old. And I have said, I think the best thing for somebody after they graduate high school is or heck even college, if you still want to go to college route, is to actually travel abroad. Because in my experience is traveling, you learn way more things than you do. Problem solving skills, what else is out there, other careers, how other people do things. You get to understand people. I tell you, because I'm sure you can test this. You're in Japan right now. You don't speak Japanese.

I bet you are learning really well on how to communicate with people, right? Through nonverbal cues, right? Which is incredibly important in business. And so what are your thoughts on traveling and just getting out there and other avenues on how to get out there. Oh, I could talk about travel a day. I was actually a travel agent a couple of years ago. It was one of the things when I went to New Zealand, and it was one of the environments I really thrived in because I was passionate about travel. I cared about it, and I was good at sales. So it was like a match made in heaven.

But I think travel is this kind of thing that we think about it, and we go, that must be nice. Or that's something I'll do one day, or I can't possibly afford to do that. But I don't think people realize how accessible travel actually is. And for people in the US, especially now with the US dollar being as strong as it is, it is so accessible. And I like to think of a small investment made in travel will 10 times over the next few years, just in the life experience it gives you and how much you can accelerate your personal growth through travel. Because as you say, there's those moments, those challenging moments, there's situations, you never thought you would find yourself in and it can all happen in a day.

And this is where I don't like some people to think that you have to go and do 12 months overseas and you don't have to go to Europe, for example, you can pick somewhere that is going to be a lot better for your, like, the conversion rate for the US dollar. But then go somewhere that's either a bit closer or a little bit easier to travel to, or it just means really the job your dollar is going to stretch a bit further. So maybe instead of a three week holiday to Miami, it's a three week, sorry, it's a three month holiday to somewhere in South America.

And especially when you do grow some of the words in other language or just a completely different culture, it is ridiculous how much your mind changes just by being in that environment without even doing anything in particular. Yeah, yeah. So I have so many questions. So you've already hinted at holding a few jobs. Right? Can you, I'm not asking you for your entire resume, but can you kind of talk about the trajectory of your jobs And, and, and, and, because, because I want to encourage, because I love this topic. I'm trying to figure out how to communicate this. I think the lack of coffee is not helping, but I, I think I want to tell people like, it's okay if you don't love where you're at, because a lot of people, usually, a lot of people don't like where they're at, and they have to find it, right?

And so I kind of want to hear your journey of super high level and the jobs you've held in, maybe some realizations along the way to help encourage others. Yeah, so as I said at the start, I wanted to be a doctor growing up. And I say I wanted to be that, but that was because that was kind of given to me by someone else. I said, hey, you should go and do this. I mean, could you think of anything more cliche than going and studying better, so do that, right? And so everyone was OK with that. And then when I left school, as I said, I went and did a gap.

You're abroad. I worked as a nanny. And when I came back and moved out of home, I grew up on a farm in Australia. When I moved to university, it just wasn't the same. I realized I didn't want to be a doctor, but once you're kind of in that university system, you're like, well, I've started. I'm not as well going. I know. I know. So I started studying biomedical science. Once I realized I definitely didn't want to be a doctor, I stupidly still kept studying that, but I also picked up a commerce degree. So majoring in finance alongside that because I was always really interested in business.

And while I was at university, I had a couple of different jobs, like even on campus, I was a residential advisor, which had like 50 young people that were kind of in my care, like crazy learnings from stuff like that. But then what really I discovered at university was a passion for sales. So I worked at a telemarketing company. I'm not sure any of these telemarketing is really still a thing, but it was basically called calling hundreds of people every day. It is like, if there is one way to get over yourself and to learn how to handle a lot of people's rejections, it is by having a phone up on you hundreds of times every day.

And so when I came to the end of university, then I had some other missile agents in there, I was more lost than when I started. And when we, my partner and I went on a holiday to New Zealand, because I got to get out of here, I've just got to go and do something different. And when we were in New Zealand, we were in the mountains, we were in Queenstown, and I was like, oh my God, I love this place. Like people were living there for the lifestyle. They wanted to do things on the weekend. There were activities to do on the weekend, not just going out and eating or drinking.

And my partner and I were like, you know what, let's just move here. And my mother said, I want to do something exciting. I want to do something I love and I'll be good at. And that's when I went into being a travel agent. So I did say it combined sales and travel. Right. So that was just like this. Holy crap. This is what's actually possible for my life. And I got into this company. I did incredibly well. I kind of got number one in New Zealand, number two in the world for first year sales people. didn't need a qualification for it and was like what are people going to university thought for and spending all this money it really is about finding the right workplace at anything as possible but through that process really burnt out took a promotion I shouldn't have but had all these insane experiences on the way like a conference in Vegas a trip to Argentina one of this stuff so it was like it was a crazy experience and once I kind of left that I burnt out, I ended up spending like time just getting my health back on track, starting to work on the work that I'm working on now.

Went back into the workforce at one point into real estate as a business manager, but knew pretty quickly that real estate wasn't for me. And really now it is just about getting this all off the ground, this movement of like, let's make careers less serious, more adventurous. So yeah, book coming out, just speaking everything. So yeah, I guess that's pretty little bit more. No, no, that's perfect. So I'm curious too, right? So you held a lot of nine to five jobs, right? Eight to five jobs. And then now you're kind of doing your own thing. I think there has obviously been a huge boom in the creator economy since COVID, right?

I mean, I think a lot of the podcasts listened to talk about how like a lot of working at Target or Walmart, like the hourly rages are having to be raised. I mean, a ton because a lot of people have made up that income where they don't have to go in and do those jobs anywhere they can do them at home. What, when did it click for you that you were just like, all right, I'm gonna do this myself. There's been stepping stones. And I think that this is a thing that it doesn't just, it's not just often one thing that happens that you're like, I'm gonna completely flip my life around.

But for example, when I really went all in on what I'm doing at the moment, I actually had a different business with a business partner and it was business consulting. So it was going into small businesses, working out their inefficiencies, their staffing issues and seeing how we could basically improve those. But I just realized I didn't want to, somebody didn't want to share it with someone. It was that I really, what I was passionate about was young people, it was helping them in the first few years of their career. And I wanted to do it my way. And so I just got to this point where I had to go all in And it's not easy.

Like it really isn't easy. And I'm learning so much along the way. And I've had to hire mentors and coaches because there's a lot in the online space about, you just got to go for it. And you've just got to be yourself. And it will all come to you. But it's just not true. And there's so much that you still need to learn about building a business. And just because you studied it, maybe at university or you've worked in a business, doesn't mean that you know then how to run a business. And so every day is just trying to constantly improve myself to constantly get better at what I'm doing.

And trusting, I guess, this, that this is a purpose, this is a much deeper purpose, what I'm doing now than what I was doing beforehand. So while it might take longer, I know I guess deep down that this is the work I'm here to do. And I guess there's something very liberating about that as well, because I know I'm not, I used to feel what I was working for other people like I'm like, not, I could do this better. Sometimes it would be I could do this better, but I just feel like I'm only putting 60% of myself on the table and I'm leaving 40% of it off.

So why would I not go and do someone do something that gives that I can give 100% to? I love that. So what so so for the people who are on the call and a lot of people are in tech that I work with right that that are on this live stream and nothing that really matters I'm just letting you know but what's your advice for people who feel stuck right because I feel I talked to so many people and I'm sure you've had these conversations And I kind of had this conversation yesterday with my guests, where it was just like, like, you know, there's always going to be like, there's only so many finite titles.

There's only so much money you can make in a nine to five world, right? And I know I've talked to a lot of people lately who have considered leaving the tech industry because they don't know what to do anymore, right? And so what would you tell people if they're stuck in their career? I think there is a bit of an idea. And this is sometimes a reality of life, especially if there's bills pay and you're not ahead financially of, I can't leave what I'm currently doing until I know what that next thing is. Yeah. And so what I think ends up happening through that is to stay longer in a toxic situation or a workplace or a job, you just know it's not for you.

but I think slowly it just erodes away your confidence and then you become less and less sure of yourself. And I think if you are stuck, the first thing you can do is try and look for something you haven't seen before. So whether that is trying to take a break, go on a trip, see something different, go and meet, speak to someone you haven't spoken to from, sorry, go and speak to someone from a completely different industry that you're in. But I think it takes something just to break you out of the cycle that you're in. And it's not that you have to take extreme action now and you have to quit your job and then just wait for it to happen.

But I think if you don't create the space and the opportunity for you to even consider a realistically look at what might be next, you're going to keep staying stuck. And I don't think it takes very much to get unstuck. But if you stay still and you choose not to move, then it's incredibly difficult to get unstuck with the situation that you're in. I love that. You know, you said something just now about just like getting up moving and I feel I've I've talked to a lot of hiring managers, a lot of people in tech around mindfulness and not being in front of the screen and going for walks and clearing your brain.

I mean, have can you speak to that at all either in your personal life or others? Maybe you've helped mentor where it's like, Hey, listen, maybe, maybe don't send. I mean, maybe go walk around, right? take some time off to let your brain have a break because I feel like everybody's brains are frazzled these days. It's not about necessarily having a break but it's also having other things in your life that you enjoy. I love that. That was part of yesterday too. Having a heart. Yeah, and when you're in your 20s in particular, it's a really dangerous, it's an exciting time. it's the most opportunity to feel a decade sometimes of your life but I think it's also very dangerous in the sense that this is why I call what the work I do on serious careers because you get serious before your time.

You get so caught up in the pressure of getting ahead of getting that next promotion that you lose sight of what's actually happening around you and I think absolutely taking a break is a big part but to have something where you can totally lose track of time you can go and put a smile on your face to feel totally absorbing the activity that you're doing So an example of what I've done like has been learn how to snowboard and I am completely uncoordinated I am really uncoordinated. I'm like a giraffe on stilts and When we moved to New Zealand, it was one of the things I said I wanted to be I wanted to I wanted to learn how to snowboard and I know that might sound glamorous or something like that It really wasn't it was just that I moved somewhere that gave me the accessibility to this activity that I wanted to learn how to do and it was maybe six or $700 a year for me to go snowboarding unlimited number of times And so whenever I would be feeling in a funk I could go strap on the snowboard and snowboard for a couple of hours And you can bet that you're gonna forget pretty quickly about what's going on at work when you're strapped into Essentially a piece of plastic and it's all on you to control right now Some serious serious damage if you go and store it But it doesn't have to be snowboarding.

It can be something, but it has to be something that I have a great reason to stop what I'm doing to go out and change my state of mind that I'm going to feel energized by. And yes, walking is important, exercise important, eating well is important. But I think if all it does is just serve what you're doing for work, where's life? Like, what's, you know, where is the fun in it? And I think there's so many people, and this is maybe where I've looked to older people about what are the things they regret and so much of that is not making the most of their time when they were young when you have the energy to go and do things like I'm in this really beautiful phase at the moment where I don't have kids but I still have lots of energy and that's when the partner I went if we don't go and do something now it's just going to become more difficult when we when we potentially our children.

That's so good I man I so I got goosebumps with what you're saying and I get goosebumps when things are really good so I want to stay on this topic for a second. For the people who watch this now in the future to roll their eyes at us. Oh, okay. All right. You go snowboard I'm gonna stick to making my money That's fine But I also feel like let me ask you this you know you sound like somebody who's very driven right you top sales travel By the way, I'm using you to put my travel from here on out You know you you sound like a very driven person right you grew up up it sounds like in a very traditional household, being a doctor, I'm sure there was obviously pressures on you.

Maybe there wasn't, but normal societal pressures of going to college and performing and being a doctor. And the people who are rolling their eyes here going, oh, okay, well, I don't have time to go snowboard, right? Because I'm so career driven. How has that mental switch happened? Because I'm trying to get that through people through this show about, because listen, you know, I'm doing this cleanse, right? And I've gotten a little clarity in it to be totally honest with you. And be like one of the things, I haven't even said this to my wife yet. I said, one of the things I've learned on this clients is all I need is a good cup of coffee in my family.

I was at Ann, a good brunch. I love a good breakfast, right? Especially the breakfast in New Zealand, holy cow. I'm just unbelievable. That's just unbelievable. You've experienced it, right? It's a British breakfast. Is it full British breakfast, what they call it? It's just, it's the best. I haven't been to New Zealand, make sure you get the breakfast. But that's all I need, right? And I say that, but I feel like in this world, there's so much comparison. There's so much looking at those shoulders. So talk to the people right now about the mental switch that you've had from going to being the best travel agent, maybe in the world, or especially within your area and doing all these jobs and trying to get the mental break of being like, you know what, I'm just gonna do me, I'm gonna make what I do make me happy.

Oh, it's such a great, like a great question. I could talk about this for hours, but it reminds me of something a coach told me a couple of weeks ago. And I was talking about how I felt like I had some like money blocks almost. I was like, man, I feel like, you know, like I'm blocking money coming into the business. And she said to me, she said this. She said, Alana, you don't have money blocks. You have a block with accepting your life and the decisions that you've made, of radically accepting them. And it's something I've really tried to embrace the last couple of weeks.

And these are the choices I've made, and I am really happy with my life. And I love that it's like, I love my life at the moment, I love what I've done. And I think that that is the point that it is a choice. And I'm not saying it doesn't come without sacrifice, but I know what's important to me. And I spent most of my 20s having no idea what I wanted to do with my life being so lost and confused. But what ended up happening is, But by working out what I don't want, I got closer and closer and closer to working out what I do want.

And even if I didn't know what I did want, if at least I didn't know what I didn't want and I didn't do that, that was a pretty good start. But I think at a certain point, you have to go, am I living my life for me or am I living at someone else? Am I living it for my company? Am I living it for my friends or for the nice car or the fancy house, whatever it may be? And that's really what I've had to do. And as I said, it didn't come without sacrifice. like I don't, for me, I don't value a brand new iPhone.

So I've never bought an iPhone in my life. I've never really bought a brand new. I've never paid more than like, I don't know, in US dollars, maybe $300 for a phone because it's not something that I value. I don't drive a fancy car. I didn't drive a fancy car. My partner and I shared a car of a mill living in New Zealand. And so I think it is one of the things that it's a choice that you make. And this is a choice I've made. And I've now had to, I guess, engineer my life to make it happen, to put the pieces in place so that I could do it.

And for me, there was no greater sense of payoff than when I was like, right, I really wanna sit down and write this book that I've been working on, for example. And I was like, okay, it's gonna cost money for me to do that because I need to create the space to be able to do it, but then also to pay the bills. Wilted our lives and we went, New Zealand doesn't make any sense anymore. Right. It's the cost of living in skyrocketed, it just didn't make any sense. So we went, let's go to Bali for a month. Let's go to Indonesia. I know and you were talking about my book.

We're the same person. That's it's real weird. I've never met you until today and we've had a lot of the same places. But let's go to Bali for a month because I know that from a space perspective there's gonna be nowhere more inspiring than that. We can get a villa with our own private school for like $50 a night or less. But we could literally live our best life. So let's go and do that because it'll actually be cheaper for us to live there. And I think, yeah, when there is not greater power when you're like, you proved to yourself that you can do something and you go, this is what I'm going to do.

You make it happen. And then you go, yep, sure, I'd love to have more money in the bank account to be able to do it all to be able to fly business class to be able to say in really, really nice hotels. But you know what, I know what's important to me. I know what I value and I have that. And that's all that I like that's all that I need at this point in time. Anything more than that is a bonus. So good. So good. I had a few more users going back to getting comfortable being uncomfortable. I mean, that's just everybody says it, but some called imposter syndrome.

I mean, listen, I think if you're feeling uncomfortable, you're, you're growing. Amy comes in with a great topic today. So glad to be here. Amy, I'm glad you're here. It's good to see you, by the way, Kevin, Kevin, please stop, please stop. Becky goes and landing, you're speaking to my soul. The one from my outdoor activities would be hard to decompress from everyday stress it adds so much value in my life, plus I'm able to offer that to other two nonprofits. I love that so much. And then Michael, Michael dapping it up here. So, you know, as we wrap up here and time flies when we're having fun, but I want to get you back to bed.

Talk about your book real fast. I would love to promote your book. So when it pushes out, would love to send me a link so I can post it. But talk about your book and why people should look into your book. Yeah, so the book is called I'm Serious Career and it's 11 actions to take in the first five years of your career. So it's really much designed to be this. you know when you leave school and you think you know what you want to do or you have no idea what you want to do What do you actually do? This is kind of the book that goes here are the things that you can work on and the ways that you can really build the Foundations for a career that you actually want to work in not a career that someone else thinks that you should work in So that's the idea I guess behind the book and so it is more designed to be for say school leaders are in the first five years of your career So if anyone does know someone who kind of falls in the age gap perfect for them But really that's like a starting place I guess for what I'm doing and the aim from there on is to hold in person events, hold online events and really just to open up this conversation about how do we take the seriousness out of careers and how do we add the fun back in?

How do we actually enjoy our careers and enjoy our life rather than feeling like it's just an amount and we have to keep climbing. So it's all very like early stages, which is why it's so exciting and my life I need to be like in exciting environments at the same time keep the nervous system like Cool, it's all gonna come together, but yeah, I just I I I want to genuinely help people I want to change the way we look at careers I don't want it to be that you come out of school when you're 18 years old and you have to decide on one part But I stick at that.

I want it to be that work is this thing that you can experiment with and you can use it to do To design a really fulfilling life. I love that. I love that. All right last question and we'll get you back off to bed. So we had guidance counselors in middle, so my show is called guidance counselor 2.0 because we had guidance counselors in middle school and high school and college, but as adults, not so much. It's called therapist now, which I'm a big fan of, but we don't really have like career people that we can just check in with. So that's why this show is called guidance counselor 2.0.

So my question to you is what piece of career advice would you have given yourself early on? It's a good question. I've thought about it a lot lately, But to be honest, it really boils down to enjoy yourself now because you can have fun now and in the future. It's not something you have to, enjoyment and fun isn't something you have to sacrifice for some random day in the future that you really can enjoy it. And if it's actually exactly what you should do that you should enjoy it because you'll never get that time again, that freedom, the lack of responsibility in your 20s. So make the most of it.

I love it, I love it. Elena thank you so much stay on real quick so I can say bye to you but everybody thank you again for hanging out with us today time flies when you're having fun with friends and I have a new friend Elena now so but please go connect with her is is twitter the best place to connect with you? no so it'd be either instagram or tick tock at unserious careers or you can head to unserious careers.com and send me an email I would love to hear from you and hear your own experiences I love it. I love it. All right, y'all.

Y'all have a good one. Tomorrow, I have an amazing individual. She's a speaker at Render ATL this year, Ashton. So I'll see y'all tomorrow. Have a great Tuesday. And y'all have a good one. Bye. Hey, you did it. You listened to an entire episode. And I am very grateful. Because you know why? There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of episodes. And I myself rarely finished an entire episode. So I appreciate you so so much for listening, quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the app store. I want this to be discoverable to others. And the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it, please, like right now, unless you're driving, then don't do it.

So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me, Taylor at vaco.com or at T. Dessin on all social media handles. And I hope you have a fantastic day.