being contentful w/shauna kimball

full transcript

auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

all righty good morning everybody happy Monday you all made it it's Monday hopefully everybody had a great Mother's Day weekend um I hope you ate a lot I ate a lot I grilled I grilled for my wife last night it was great and uh it was a grocery pork chops fantastic uh but that's not the point of the show the point of the show is uh I have an amazing individual on I'm so excited about this uh this morning a lot of great nuggets to share hold on I'm actually going to text my community real quick um sweet a lot of people are saying they

don't get updates on this when it goes live so I have a texting Community where I text people so that's a little fun all right so uh yes talking with Shawna she's great I'm biased but she's great we're gonna talk about a lot of things the main thing we're gonna talk about is being contentful being content uh I'm looking forward to this chat but before we jump into this chat as always say hey let us know what you tuned in from uh this is a networking platform right this is a podcast yes it is a live show yes people are like what is this a

podcast live show it's like it's both I don't know just call whatever you want to call it um but this is also a networking platform and the reason why I say that you're probably like well Taylor why listen how is this a networking platform the thing is is networking all all networking is is having something in common with other people and you consistently show up and engage so what I've realized is that's what this is right I I have I mean I'm not kidding you I'm not making this up for you to like comment for engagement purposes I've literally had people on the show find

Mentor mentees they have found jobs internships off the show not to mention um they've made a lot of new connections so all that being said if you are watching please say hey there's a lot of people that like go through even after the show and comment and engage so if you're watching this like six six weeks from now comment because peopl e like watch this thing like a hawk second thing is ask questions right I I bring on some amazing amazing individuals like Shawna uh and and she doesn't bill me for it right I'm very grateful for it so ask questions take advantage of her

mind her experience um and uh and and ask good questions and learn something today um finally want to give a shout out to uh that conference so the official coffee sponsor of the show so if you see us over here a conference that sells coffee believe it or not so I'm actually keynoting in July at this conference very very blessed but also too that's not why I'm shining them out I they are actually the coffee sponsor of the show I'm drinking it right now it's fantastic I'm drinking they're light roast which is Sassy syntax yes that's a thing um and then finally I've partnered with

David Roberts on Twitter and on LinkedIn if you don't know David Roberts who is a software developer recruiter he's over in England he's awesome he has a book out it's 100 bucks if you use the code taylor10 then you get ten dollars off um I like it I think you should look it out look it up if you are looking for additional resource how to find a job there's very few people who I trust who have gone from the developer route to the recruiter route who can articulate it well enough check this out highly recommend it I want to give shout out to people before

Sean introduces herself Dev Alex Brett Joe John Chris Eugene Allison Wendy LinkedIn user Megan Fritz and Sophia Chris Mark Jordan Nick Elvin Ritu I love it so much we got the crew out today all right Shawna enough of me running my mouth who are you what do you do and we'll go from there I love the LinkedIn music just generic happy happy LinkedIn user analytically but good morning everybody good afternoon good evening whenever you are watching us uh my name is Shawna Kimbo I am in Los Angeles California it's very early but here we are um I am a senior manager diversity inclusion for recruiting

programs and di versity initiatives at 2K that's what they pay me for eight to five on the side as you'll see under my name I have my own company called Everybody Eats which stands for education at the source where we do more of this grounding of uh let's say resume building interview prep kind of like side hustles how do you get your entrepreneurial Spirit things that you're passionate about but lining it back to Talent acquisition and supporting just efficiency so both of those things make me I love that so yeah Sean and I what you're getting is you're getting a whole bunch of community and

recruiting efforts on this show yes yes which is never a bad thing um Elvin hopefully it doesn't keep cutting out um let let Elvin know if anybody sometimes sometimes just got issues and and it's a Monday Alex good to see you Ellie it's great to see you as well all right so the reason why we're here today is talk about being contentful and it's funny so I don't have any guides or any prep before this show everyone just kind of hops on so Sean and I so Sean and I caught up like 15 minutes what like two weeks ago three weeks ago yeah it was

a great conversation I was like man I'm so excited to catch up with her and I wrote notes of what we're going to talk about literally got on the call today I was like Sean I have no idea what we're gonna talk about she goes honestly me neither so um so we talked about off air and and and I'm Sean just went through a job search recently actually since we spoke I think almost um yeah we talked about being contentful so let's go and start off what does that mean talk about your experiences and we'll obviously Dive In yeah so I think being content especially

in a career and personal are like two separate things that I've been trying to merge recently which is kind of weird because they're like you know keep what they say church and state keep your relationships at home all of the different things but in my mind if I'm giving 40 plus hours a week to something it's like I want to be happy I want to be able to be my authentic self I want to be able to show up and kind of just like have that balance where I don't have to put on this corporate mask and be like all right time to go to

work and like I do and things like that so when I'm seeking contentment and as I mentioned with the recent job uh change that we talked about is honestly just authenticity like am I happy am I dreading showing up every day or am I like all right let's get to work like what are we doing today like how do we tackle things like there are some things that I'm good at and there are some things I'm learning but finding that good balance it's like um I don't know if you're like the dating metaphor they're like 70 good and like 30 bad like where do you

leave well I was gonna ask you about that right because I think I've had this conversation with somebody somebody said very somebody somebody said something very astute and I don't remember who it was or what exactly the quote was so obviously it wasn't that good but I promise it was good what are your thoughts on that right because because I don't know about you I'm highly emotional right so I am um I'm a three-wing two on the Enneagram a big Enneagram fan okay um do you know your number you know my number but oh you need to take it come on you're a recruiting you

need to know that number I'm thinking uh but choose choose you're highly emotional okay big big people focused um individuals all the helpers what they call it okay and and what I've realized is like sometimes I'm like I want to go jump off a cliff when things are bad but it's just it's just one instance so how do you navigate that yeah uh well I am very emotional as well but I like to say I'm very emotionally intelligent so I'm able to I always joke around with my friends like crying is my first line of defense I'm gonna cry and I'm like okay I'm gonna

cry first and then we'll process just let me cry I love that I love that I'm gonna figure it out after that um but I think jobs are very emotional like I'm giving my all sometimes it feels personal and it's not and how to understand like oh something didn't go your way and it's like whoa is that because of me or is it because of the job or the situation like it's very hard to mitigate that but I think in terms of just having emotional intelligence at work it's like sitting back and like is this situation about me or am I making it personal and

really being able to sit down and kind of look at that like I remember I'm not going to say that hold on say that one more time that was good can you say that one more time being able to distinguish like is it the company is it me or this current situation okay because all three of those are going to have an influence like company is it is it a company problem is it a you problem or is it a like this hat like almost like this current situation gotcha okay yeah because I think when we're and somebody could say like the company and the

situation are the same but I don't think so it could be here are the company goals here's the bottom line here are the values here's what we signed our offer letters to do this is what your role is for you could be just something like is it you know outside noise like you know my kids pissed me off today like in this situation I needed it to go right and it's going less so everybody has to die like who you know like it could be just as drastic we had that situation yesterday with our daughter we gave our daughter a little bit of a cinnamon

roll we don't we don't do it like a ton of sweets in the house and we gave her for because Mother's Day when I got like you know and homegirl just was a wild Banshee for the rest of that and literally my wife looked at me for brunch and was like I can see why everybody eats their kids in in the wild and the animal kingdom lit like you're on 10 and I need this win today you know like that could be the influence or in addition to like the situation it could just be the situation isn't a no it's just like a not now

and how do you pivot and navigate those things and I don't think we're able to distinguish the three kind of like myself and I want this for performance review or this is going to give you a promotion and blah blah blah you're not able to assess like the outside factors and sometimes that's very hard and it you take it personally like my manager hates me because she took this away and it's like actually the company's going down you don't know you may not even have a job so like let's yeah you're worried about the wrong things here so obviously you know I you know you

share as much as you want but you know ultimately throughout your career you know you've you've you've moved around which I love um when when have you figured out it's the right time to move yeah whoa that's like such a like a heavy question I know I'm sorry I'm sorry it's heavy on this Monday it's all laughs and it's like boom heavy questions like the Mr Krabs me let's do this so so let's let's ease into that question okay okay so do you when you have moved have you sat down and done a pros and cons list like like have you had any sort of

exercise like that now yes the last two jobs yes oh last two jobs the other two just Vibes um and I it's very hard to navigate so grateful enough like if you look at my accolades you're like wow she worked at Facebook like uber and like these are all pedigree yeah right like and I'm very proud of it but I in that moment we all right I think very grateful enough like I have never Associated just my work or even kind of like my work ethic with the titles of the company and I think that has always been a win for me it's like other

people get excited where I work at but I'm excited based off of my title or kind of like what I get to do every day because regardless of the title I'm gonna do what I want if I want to help diversity I'm going to do this like my inside I'm like I'm hiring everybody black I said what I s aid like these are my goals yeah in general and it's like wow what is going to help me further that what missions are aligned to what I want to do and how to push kind of like that narrative so I think Uber actually was my first

introduction to Tech like I moved to the Bay it was like a big thing like coming from just like the Navy and working in San Diego where I got to do like cool as well but like this was my first like oh this is it like I'm making money yeah I was like I'm making 100K like it's over for y'all and then I got there and I was like oh everyone's making 150.

um quick quick question but like that was my first like company going public like understanding just navigating politics in the you know like what is a budget what does all these things and I think from there I was getting so defeated because I was like oh I love my team I love growing I love doing all of these things we're going public I don't know what stock means you know like oh I'm about to get paid like I don't there's so many like things that I have and then like I kid you not the third day that I got hired my manager like left so

like this person I've been cultivating this relationship for two months like you're gonna start blah blah blah here I'm like Monday we're like this is so great Tuesday HR is like yeah your manager's gone I'm like what the actual like who is gonna protect me who do I talk to like I don't even know these people if leadership aligns to what I want to do so I think that was hard navigating like I'm passionate about this this is who I am I don't understand why you aren't aligned or why I can't do the things that I was told you know to be hired for so

I think those three years were very hard just trying to navigate like wait what do you mean I'm a senior recruiter and not a program manager I signed my offer for this what do you mean someone's making more money than me and doing less work like what do you mean I can't go to this conference and I want to pay but we have a budget like I didn't understand the politics of corporate America for that I it's probably the worst thing I've ever done I was like f off I'm moving back to San Diego I was like I'm going home we're working remote like before

covid I'm going home and then they let me do it they changed my title like almost like demoted me and then I got my first paycheck and I was like what the hell and they're like yeah you can work remote as a recruiter but not a program manager and I was like what like I don't understand these things so then I was like off I'm gonna move back like I moved back and I think that was like the the reality check like Okay We're Not Gonna Leave a situation because your feelings are hurt you need to educate yourself you need to navigate the workforce and

you need to know like what makes a business money and how your role impacts that it's not just oh I want to change the world as if everyone you know like wants to do that but you have to understand what are the values of your manager what are the values of your company and how you fit into that ecosystem and I think that Uber I was such an individualized um mindset that I didn't care about anything else it really was Shauna like I want to help the world you know I'm planting trees and like those things are great right I had to understand how I

fit into that ecosystem and so when I made that move to Facebook after that I was like okay these are the things that I can ask about here are the triumphs that I want like with I know how to navigate I know how to ask how do you work what is your management style can I do these things hypothetically of course how do you navigate that and I think I went into it with the more educational background and made that move intentionally versus like I hate you and I'm out which is exactly what I've done my whole career and honestly I love that transparency because

I think I think we all deal with it right and and I think this is where a lot of times like for me and an d you and I chat about this off air and I've said it with my lives in the past is you need to figure out is what you're going through it's kind of like you said but for me is is it a is it an industry issue yeah or is it a specific company issue because if it's an industry issue like for me and go to another Staffing Company right like I would need to ask myself are the things I'm experiencing

at vaco a staffing company issue like it's a staffing industry issue or is it a vaco issue yeah right and I think a lot of people can't separate that they just think everything's a company issue and it's like yeah no I don't I don't think so um no totally and that's what I didn't think about with Uber honestly I was like this is Uber F everybody I'm leaving and it probably was the worst roll-off I've ever done like I mean grateful they'll definitely hire me back maybe not after this yeah but I think it's those conversations that I had to be real with myself is

that there are problems in ways that I wanted to do and I was very selfish in that navigation but I was so cocky with my experience and I'm like I could do this anywhere like I don't need food and then got like a very real reality check like oh actually these are the same problems like very like this is a tech problem this is not a Shauna problem correct however how Shauna navigates needs to be different and that's where I think like what you're talking about is like a company problem or like a me problem I'm like at this stage it was both right that's

how I responded I could control that I can't change Tech in an hour or like a year but we don't talk about those things we're just like my manager pissed me off they're the worst person in the world I gotta go and it's like you actually don't have to leave that situation there are coping mechanisms there's therapy now there's yeah right because well what are your what are your thoughts right so so let's let's role play for a quick second so let's say I kind of like Shawna like listen like my manager sucks I need to get out of here yeah like what would you

tell me the favorite questions is how did we get here what happened to make you make that decision like how did you get to that statement your manager sucks okay did they suck just because it's Tuesday or is this something that you've been building up and hasn't addressed or did a situation not go your way and you don't have the effective tools to address how you're really feeling like let's get to the bottom line so you can be like okay my manager sucks and you're like well why well he or she slacked me today and was questioning why I signed you know this media agreement

and I'm like okay how did that make you feel it made you feel incompetent it made you feel like he or she doesn't trust you it made you feel like you're doing these things and that was an important contract to you and I'm like okay so does the actual manager suck or you just didn't get your way in this moment and now you're reflecting on you're encapsulating your whole career first this moment and I'm like your manager could suck that's what you say I'ma stand beside you sure they suck however what are the underlining feelings that you have and how did we get to that

ultimate statement because because listen I am married I will tell any anybody in any relationship you only got to be married if you're in any relationship man woman don't care for the most part yeah what you're arguing about isn't actually about what you're arguing about okay amen because the thing is is that like so for example wife and I this week right or this weekend we had an argument we had an argument we basically through the argument I've apologized right like a good husband should first I was the first to apologize follow my sword right I've been counseling for it learning how to apologize correctly

which is a whole nother conversation my wife ended up coming to me and goes you know what I'm sorry because me getting frustrated was actually ab out this situation it was actually and you know what it was completely unrelated like it like wasn't even in the same ballpark it was like she was dealing with something earlier in the week and it came to fruition during the conversation that we got an argument in yeah and so a lot of times with your bosses and stuff is you know I tweeted this last week I said you never know what someone's going through yeah hurray and so I

I think there needs to be a level of everything now I'm not sitting here saying and Sean is not saying too just take it for years on end we're not saying that no but we're saying that a lot of times the knee-jerk reactions probably could be not quite as knee-jerky yeah and don't make like harsh decisions about leaving based off of one emotional you know thing like if there are reoccurring things like that like I have you know people say make a rap sheet and write down like all your accomplishments or things that make you happy at work I have the same thing for things

that piss me off at work so and I keep voting yeah I ever get to alone I'm like yeah I'm out I'm gonna go through the sheet and be like okay with Shauna this moment was manager this moment but if there's a theme it's like okay there's some substance to this there's some context or like I have a right to leave all right and you can compare is your good days outwing the bad because right those lists are so important to me on the back end because and also by the way I want to give a shout out to Elliot Jordan and Michelle I see

your comments in there as well so thank you thank you for engaging in the conversation for sure I want to ask you making moves from a comp perspective salary perspective yeah I think a lot of people you know want to make the jump for twenty thousand twenty thousand dollars more thirty thousand dollars more what they don't realize that maybe maybe eight dollars an hour after taxes yeah more yeah and again I'm I'm not I'm not hating on that whatsoever but what do y ou what are your thoughts on again it kind of all plays into it you get angry knee-jerk reaction you update your resume

that night it's on the job boards the next day right right yeah then you go take the job two weeks later that's thirty thousand dollars more what what would you say for folks from from a comp perspective and just being mindful with that yeah um well of course I'm gonna say this I feel like it's very selfish but I think for me I do not have anybody contingent on me so it's very different analysis from like where I'm looking at comp from like I know I'm usually like oh I'm married I have kids I don't have dependents like my plants aren't gonna get mad because

I ain't so good though by the way plants I've been admiring that plan consider it's the last thing what's the first thing you consider Mission obviously kind of what we've been saying it's what I get to do and how much influence I have and I say influence because anyone can do your job like as a result like your job is going to be posted God forbid something happened it's gonna be up in two weeks they're gonna review they're gonna do all these things but if I have influence to make change that I have stakeholders that are supporting this goal and this role that's what I

mostly care about because yeah was who else was in front of me what are the barriers of Entry that they had also like what did they do that couldn't be accomplished and what wasn't accomplished was that leadership Roblox was it just this person's skill set or y'all just don't know how to navigate influences what's going to get you to do the things that you want and if no one supports that or no one has buy-in for this role I don't it's just a click block oh you're here great do the same thing the person does we don't care to grow so but if you're telling

me no leadership is invested in this role and like this is a new role and we want to do this oh great I can influence the world like if I have supporters that's that's what I car e about the most and I the money is going to come whether you believe it or not like if you're showing up passionate you have buy-in you have inclusion like those are things that people can't take away from me anyone can do the task that you do you can train someone hey I have this degree I have this you can sell your ass off in the interview resume people

lie all the time but when you get into the application yeah that passion is displayed and you have buy-in to support there will be people that will help navigate you so that's the first thing that I look at and I look at compensation last is because I don't want that to dictate how much passion or worth I'm giving and that's what a lot of people think the first thing that people say I feel like when they get mad is I don't get paid to do this like I don't get paid enough for you to blah blah blah so I hey here's a hint no one

gets paid enough to do anything like let's just go and say that like or do any of the work that we give so that is a question I never want to answer so when I'm looking at compensation I'm like on my bad days what would be my quote unquote shutoff number like I don't want that to be the first thing if I get mad at work where I'm like I don't get paid enough to do this so what is that Baseline that's what I consider and then total offer and no one ever talks about that like people talk about cash and like Obsession but it's

like are there stock what are my vacations what's the benefits look like yeah and anything simple like Fitness reimbursement if you like the Peloton and they're giving you 45 great on your worst day I'm gonna ride that damn bike okay get mad but it's like total offer is everything and it's not just about the Quick Cash it's how are you looking at like the cycle of just that flexibility and I think from there that's what you can consider comp and jumping should never be about comp unless you're in a position where it's like no I need cash for sure 100 100 you have honestly t

he flexibility to really talk about or move because you have a passion or you have a shift and you have a different idea that's an amazing situation to be in where you can navigate not out of need but out of self-worth and those are the two pivotal things and worth does not come by compensation it comes by me sharing my ideas me giving my gifts me showing up authentically at a company and that's I think is a sweet spot where it can be like here's my base number like again bad days I'll shut up but that shouldn't be the only thing that dictates how you

navigate I love that I love that it's crazy that we're already coming up on time I knew this would happen we obviously you're part two you and I for sure a lot of a lot of great comments coming in um and again like I I kind of want to keep the conversation going that's why I haven't thrown up a ton of comments but I love this right here dang influence at at that point they're investing in you as an individual not your employee that's deep 100 um uh so you're doing doing the job you want and and being and being it will then lead to

it becoming official yeah um yeah I mean again like Elliot said PTO Bank versus unlimited PTO maternity maternity leave right 100 work percent work from home versus hybrid like these are all things and that's what I'm saying I think I think you need to I think you need to list them right I think you need like like literally like for some bigger decisions in my life I'll never forget we my wife and I um we took her parents and we went to to a lake house from Chattanooga for her mom's birthday or Dad's birthday one of the two and I was just going through some

life stuff and and I said I said hey Jackie I was like I'm gonna go to the doc and I'm not bringing my phone and she kind of looked at me because I'm addicted to my phone she goes everything okay yeah it is and I just took a pen and paper and I just wrote I started journal and it was more powerful that was a more powerful 30 minute than I' ve ever had yeah and so I I I think I think you need to focus I think people need to slow down for that yeah um Emmett what's ever hey uh Sean do you want

to go over that one more time oh www.education at the source our consultancy that helps just you know dreamers in Corporate America I love that I love that so Shawna as we wrap up here um two questions for you okay first question mark it's kind of wild right now yeah obviously what are you seeing what's some general like uh like one or Market is not personal and that's hard to say when people are getting laid off and you know people are getting rejection letters not hearing things in three months it's not personal like we're in a crazy ass market right now so if you have

the luxury of you know just playing the field we're just navigating the waters I would just just be prepared that a lot of these rejections are not personal even though they may feel like it um I have people going on one week of you know being let go to six months it's it this is really a patience and it's not personal this is this is an industry problem as we talked about this is not a company problem I would say yeah so this isn't an individual problem this isn't a company problem this is this is a I would I would argue not even the industry

this is like the macro economics of Technology problem we're in the next history book if we're big I mean this is yeah I mean yeah what what we're going through is not normal it's not normal it's your resume impact quality quantitative yeah on that yeah um final question I ask everybody this because this guidance count for 2.0 we had guidance counselors in middle school high school and college and that was adultery but I don't have them what would be your biggest piece of career advice to your younger self oh I think I should have really thought about this like I'm very eloquent and um I

don't like to prep people because that because I just right the first um I always have and I have like a vision board so i t's kind of like twofold okay one is go in the strength that you have and remove the mental weight and the physical weight will follow and those two things I feel like are synonymous that I wish younger Shauna would have known because going the strength you have in just like an everyday model like if 70 is all I have today and I'm giving that 70 I've done a great job I may not have a hundred all the time and that's

okay and we don't navigate that if all I have is 30 in the power of no you're gonna get a no today okay because all I have is 30.

but removing the mental weight there's so much outside noise there's so much um emotional attachment to our careers to money to titles to just things that we have and I think if you remove that noise and be like what am I good at what do I want to do what do I want to be known for getting back to your core self all of the physical attributes and things I think will get out of your way so I wish I knew that because I was seeking titles I was seeking acknowledgment through you know accolades that people can give me versus just letting my work show

up and speak for itself I don't care what you call me senior manager program manager I'm running laps around y'all because I'm passionate about this yeah and I'm excited and I want to share so removing the mental weight and the I feel like the physical like roadblocks in your way will follow I love that that's awesome well y'all thanks for hanging out with us this morning guidance counselor 2.0 please go connect with Shauna um and uh I'll I'll tag her um in the in the comments when we're done um but again uh you know always gotta always gotta pitch my services as well listen if

you're looking to hire um my division we do everything marketing accounting Finance I.T you name it so even if you watch this you're like you know what I like your florals Taylor I want to work with you but we don't hire in Tech that's okay because we can literally the team I work in hires across the board so um but again tomorrow uh 9 30 a.m Central I am back with Tessa Tessa is a devrel at Snapchat um so she's coming back on the show tomorrow um so really excited to have her on so I'll see you all tomorrow at 9 30 a.m Central Shawna

thank you so much stay on real quick um backstage so I can say bye to you you all have a great one and go connect with Shawna because she's awesome all right see y'all back