the grass isn't always greener w/ ad slaton

full transcript

auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

All right, nothing wrong out there. Adios, get to people with a while. Big dog, who are you? What do you do? We'll go from there. Yeah, so I'm a native of Atlanta. Currently, I'm a senior director of software engineering on the Arc Tusa for WBD. In particular, my day job is really around bringing together sports for WBD, like, lead to report and some others. That's pretty sick. Yeah, so what I'm going to talk to you today is going to be from my expertise or my experience. And dealing with these large scale brands, and how do we come together going for it? How does the impact you, as a listener, as a follower, as you try to get to the next roles?

What are the important tips and tricks to get you to the next role? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, a lot to cover today. It's going to be a great conversation. I do have a hard stop in 22 minutes, so we're just going to get after it. So AD, first off, you've been at Warner Brothers for 13 years. Yeah, just about 13 years. That's a long-ass time. Talk about, man, what's kept you there? I think a lot of times in this world, I think it's always on to the next thing. I mean, I jumped a job after a little over a year. That's not traditional of me. But I think a lot of times, the average software engineer is like 18 months, 24 months.

Talk about what's kept you there, things you've thought about, because I'm sure, let's just call it this. You've had times we probably wanted to leave, right? Like, what's kept you there, and what's kind of put things in perspective for you? The people is really the relationship that's on the field at this organization that has kept me there. Yeah, there have been times I wanted to leave, right? I've been through two mergers in the 13, 12, 13 years. And doing that throughout the time, there have been peaks and valleys. Well, I'm like, man, I want to start something new. I want to do something. I want to create a new opportunity.

I want to create a job. So because the people that I work with and the projects and the scale that I'm working on, it is killing me. It's killing me involved. It is killing me, it's seeing how you went next. And I say goals for myself, right? And because I have these goals, I job-hopped. Like, early on my career, every two years, I was doing the two year thing, every two years. Sure. Sure. Then I got to the place where, hey, I believe in this organization. I believe in the work that we're doing. Not just the actual physical work that you see on the screen, but the work that we do in the community.

And I'm like, hey, they are still alive with what I'm trying to do. Even though we've gone through these different acquisitions, it's like, all right, I can grow. And I've been able to grow. Like, it's been telling, I went from a contract software engineer to a senior director, right? All the things. That's a testament. So it's a testament. And I'm like, all right, I can keep going. What do you, if I were to ask you, what are three things Warner Brothers have done? So let's say other directors of engineers are watching this managers, CTO's, VP's, which they are. Y'all are my DMs. I told A.D.

that backstage. Y'all are my DMs. Y'all just don't comment. What are three things that you would say that organizations should do that Warner Brothers have done to keep you here? Coach, I know, Coach is a double-edged sword. Like, Coach is really important. But Coach is really around how the individual employees and individual contributors make it. And that's a huge investment in regards to how do we work together, not just during work, but what does an investment in culture? The work that we do is pretty compelling, right? Yes, it is entertainment industry, media industry. But the work that we get to do to deliver those things really, really speak to me, all right?

Because I love impact. I love seeing people want to look at my work, right? I've worked at CNN. So I've watched millions of people look at the work that I do to deliver election results, for instance. I do like the bleach reports because I can see the people looking at the scores and all the community stuff that we do in the bleach report. And the third thing is really around the work-life balance. Yeah, that's a huge push to bring people back to work for today's a week back type of thing. But I still haven't been able to be flexible in what I do with my family, right?

I do have a three kids. It was crazy getting them out the door this week for today. But I still have that balance where I can do that because participating in their lives. So that's found an aspect, a commercial culture aspect and the work that I'm doing are three things they're one of those who do it well. They're key to them. How do you make work meaningful, man? I mean, I think this whole new conversation of itself. But like, I mean, you say that, right? And it's like, what do you think the secret sauce is for in your mind that Warner Bros has done to keep the work interesting?

Well, all right. So Ad, in particular, not just Warner Bros. Ad, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to ask for forgiveness more so than permission. And why did I say that? Because technology requires innovation and sometimes the focus, the stakeholders don't understand the innovation. All right. So you gotta go out and take the foot forward and actually innovate and then show them. Like, yeah, I've been big on, I'll do the work and then I'll show you why the work's important and why it matters. And I think that it's more to do with how I attack the world versus what one of others or any other company I've worked for has given to me.

It's just my own natural curiosity, my own natural, hey, I can go, let me just curious about things. Let me try to go solve this. Let me see what's next. And then I'll get back. Like one thing I built in the time that I've been here, I said I wanted to go start my own thing. But I did, I started not a nonprofit that I can go tinker and do different things. And I'd say, actually, I think the work that I've done here, that's hinker, can actually impact what I do in my day job. So I brought things back from that to actually, and people live on and build a lot of them based on the thing I've tinker with on on my nonprofit.

Yeah. That's awesome. And so obviously Warner Brothers is cool with the entrepreneurial spirit, letting people have side projects, which I think is huge. I think you gotta get people in outlet. You do, but you gotta do it within the context of what the organization is doing. So I there are that things that I'm pushing like for my nonprofit's like, GraphQL, for instance, like GraphQL isn't, wasn't a huge thing, right? But now I'm like, hey, this is the power of it. And this is what it can provide. And then showing, I'm showing it. This is what it can do. It can break this break. Yeah, yeah.

It says things together. It's just showing the work, showing the value, doing the things like we talked about documentation, like write things down. And because folks are actually reading it, understanding what the value of what I'm like writing down, then I'm able to do more work, right? Because then I can start it right. Being in a global space, then folks in a different country can get absorbed in their time, right? Because we work in different times. So it's just different things like that. It can help you. Yeah, 100%. We got a lot of comments. Yeah, bleachers, my main source of news reports. Atlanta represent a lot of comments about trying to get the kids out the door this morning.

I love it. They're not gonna take away that. I've had, there we go. So, you know, 80, one of the things that I say, what I'm looking or unhappy is, and I wanna, again, I'm gonna flip this on you, is I have some internal checklist I go through, right? The biggest thing I ask myself is what I'm dealing with an industry issue or a company issue, right? So let's say there are some issues at work. You know, is this something that I'm gonna deal with any position I'm at within this industry? Right, cause I'm in a talent industry, which has its own set of issues.

Let's be honest. So do you have some internal checks and balances that you hold yourself to that you're willing to share? Yes, and it's just a personal thing with me where, yeah, I try not to change folks and I try to change myself. So my checklist is real around what can I do, right? That's something that you can do from, that you can't control, like, then political, like enterprises are political, or you have the political and some understanding. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, how do I operate in that landscape, right? It's really, I put the focus on me versus other people. So my checklist is really, did I do what I need to do?

Did I do everything I could do, or did I escalate? Right, if I can't control something, then, all right, what's the, what's the installation test? Right, then I, then I, I let it go, right? I'll put it in someone else's hand. So it's all about what I can do. Yeah, is there anything else? Cause again, let's follow it. Is you probably about leaving, right? Or were all humans, is there any other like internal checklist that you go through aside from essentially, let go of that God type situation? Yeah, I've definitely done with that because that's, yeah. I mean, I've been sitting myself for a failure, but what I'm sure is, I've, it goes back to how does it impact my family, right?

How does it impact me? And what's the long term, do I believe in the long term vision of this organization? Right? If I believe in the long term vision of organization, I'm going to put everything I can into it, right? Because it comes back to me. And right, someone's just, the EQ is greater than IQ. Absolutely. EQ is important. We're understanding that EQ portion is like, when you go in different conversations and understanding that then you can, you can better not sit in this area of a relate, but then you can start full things from what people are saying, right? Because if you can start seeing it was underneath, what people are saying all the problems.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And do you have, and again, I don't, I definitely want to beat this dead horse too much more, but do you have any other advice for folks or maybe unhappy where they're at? They really want to make a jump, but they're scared to make a jump because this market, is there any other thoughts, tips, tricks that you have? Yeah, so I've faced wrong. And then that could be superficial, right? Keep building up your get-helibs, keep learning the new things, understanding what's going on with A-I for instance. Like, understanding like what's going on in the market. Take that leap for it, right? And I can, for myself, when I came over at the time it was Turner, I was in a full-time role and I'm like, if I go to Turner, we'll be a contractor, and I was nervous.

I'm like, I'm gonna go up at the, my family, I got a safe, secure role, but then I'm gonna be a contractor. Yeah, not today. But then I looked at the Pro-Dolanski at Marry. I have a chance to work on multiple things versus being comfortable. So I took the leap forward to take the role, right? And I've been able to grow with it, but again, I wanted to leave a few times. But I stayed because one, I made it known, right? I made it known to like my manager for instance, right? And get that deep, that, because they're your advocates. If you have a good manager, right?

Let me check out that. If you have a good manager, have a great conversations with them. Right? This is what I'm feeling. This is what I'm actually looking, I might be on the market, right? Just having a frank honest and open candidate conversation with your manager or those in the organization. Like I've been able to move because I had those conversations within the organization. I'm like, I'm not happy here I'm thinking about X1 and Z. And then it's like, we have another opportunity over here in this award. And then you can move. Right. So it's really having a great conversation. Yeah, I think you bring up a good point.

I think you before you leave half you had the frank conversations. I think and they're uncomfortable. Like they are incredibly uncomfortable. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think the more comfortable you can get with difficult conversations. I'm not saying the more successful you're gonna be. Cause I don't think it's a linear thing. But I think the happier you're gonna be long term because I feel like a lot of people aren't willing to have the hard conversations. That's on that. Absolutely. And that was another podcast I listened to way back of a lot of the called radical candor. Right. Yeah. And you're able to have those conversations.

It's uncomfortable. But at the end of the day out of that fire, you'll be born into a new person where you have this new sense of being. And just having those conversations. And it actually goes beyond your career. If you have those radical conversations in your own personal life, it just transcends all of that. Right. So that's right. That's right. Off-road. Do you have any, do you have any tips with hard conversations? I think we're saying have the hard conversations, right? But I think it's easier said and done. Do you have anything that seems to work that you've seen that maybe you have a tactic that seems to work in these hard difficult conversations?

Yeah. So I'll write, you know, because I don't like to think on my feet. So I'll write it down. Right. Okay. What do I want to say? What points do I'm trying to attribute? So if I, and I try to prioritize it, like what's the most important thing I want to actually talk about? Yeah. How do I want this to land? Right. So you actually, and then I go, oh, go to YouTube. I go to TikTok. And I'm like, what do people think about this? Right. Yeah. It's real. TikTok's great from a search engine. I don't know if I'm going to talk with it. But in the same down, Larry, I want to hit these points.

And then that's how it started. I love that. I don't want to think about it. So I hate writing stuff down. I'm a big thinker on my feet. That's just the way I am. I hate like trying, like, like, like if you tell me like to read these things, like I would just be a mess. My biggest thing is I always try to come at a difficult conversation by saying like, so 80, let's say you were my manager, right? I would basically say, hey, 80, listen. I know you have a lot going on. I know you are trying to balance the team of 10. I'm sure that you are fighting fires somewhere else.

So I understand that. I know the issue, basically trying to deploy as much empathy as I feasible to can in conversation. Because if you can come at a manager and basically your manager and be like, hey, listen, I know you're dealing with this. I know you're dealing with that. I know this is a very difficult conversation. I know that you probably have your hands tied. It disarms the conversation. That's about what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I really try to do. And also too, I mean, I do agree with you. One of the things, especially at gun, and I want to shout out my CEO, he really challenged me.

I am a yapper. I like to yap it up. Obviously, as you can tell with this podcast and stuff. And I have a tendency to just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Well, my CEO at gun, he didn't necessarily love all the talking. And so he basically challenged me. He goes, I need you to come with me with like, three things that you want to get across. And so I have done better. And that's something that I really picked up over the last year of basically being more directly entered into the conversation or exiting the conversation going, hey, here my follow up points are here the three things that I need accomplished.

And so that's really helped me as well. So come prepared, deploy as much empathy, and you should be fine. Should be fine. And listen, like if you listen, if you listen, you'll hear some things, right? And you'll be able to use that in the conversation, right? And I use that. Yeah, well, 100%. So the original title of this live was gonna be about documentation. But then we talked about the grasses greener, talk about documentation or something. Obviously again, I don't really have a set topic. I was like, 80, what's on your mind? And bro, you went to documentation faster than like, it was like lightning and speed.

So why is it on your mind? Let's talk about documentation for all the devs on the chat. So I remember when I initially started, this was as an engineer, it was in 2009. I was a Chris with you. So as an engineer, I was the only engineer in the office by myself. This big huge room, and I'm like, all right, who do I go to? So the foundation of why I wanted to talk about documentation is because I remember being there by myself and not having any real person to turn to, to help me move forward. So in the spirit documentation is more around, hey, how do we pass it down or pass it back so those we were just trying to learn.

And who want to understand how things work? So that was the genesis of documentation. And also not only does it help those that are new to the org or even young, it cuts across globally. Right. So I work in a global space and being able to write things down will help someone in a different time zone than myself. Versus me always having to be in on a zoom chat or in the me. All right, here's some things that this is how the system, the design, this is how the system is built for. And this is why and then it can kind of help bring them along.

And I've been in a use case is I recently had an intern, a junior, he's a junior in college. And he knew nothing about what we did. So because I've been able to structure some of the documentation, I gave it to him on day one. Within five days he knew what the system was, why and he can articulate what we were trying to accomplish. In those five days. Do you think documentation is an underrated skill right now to level up who you are as a developer, especially with this remote workforce? Absolutely, absolutely. In the past we would say just go read the code, but that's not enough.

Right. Just going and read the code. And in the agile space, in the agile space is more wrong. Hey, let's just turn out code. Let's just turn out products and features. Now I'm saying, all right, before you get, you can still turn out, but before you get to this, still designing right now, what does the system you want to do? What are we trying to accomplish? What are use cases? Right. Articulate that and then when you get to execution, then you can be about, hey, let's just move because we know what we're doing. Right. As easier said to done, you got to build them, also.

Right. Because I have all the information and build that way. But you have to start somewhere. 100% 100%. So as we time-floshing to having fun with friends, we'll have to bring you back on for a longer chat. Any last words of advice, any tactical practical things for people on the job search right now, especially in a senior position like yourself, seeing resumes, a part of hiring, where are people really messing up when it comes to interviewing? Some people, I was just in the beginning, like if you're going to use AI, right, check it. Make sure that it's just not, yeah. Don't just create a resume way.

Actually, yeah. And then also a couple of days with some of your coding skills, right, and GitHub, right. Just continue to network. Be at these things like with Taylor, like get the no folks, be around. Dm, like Taylor was writing, Dm, everybody on this channel, like that. And just get the no folks. And the team that's made me the judge, you can. Just get out of the workspace. And also go ahead and, if you have an idea, go ahead and start building it. Like, just do it. Just if it doesn't work, so be at least you took the time out, but as we're coding and writing and fun and GitHub.

Right, GitHub is a huge source for anyone, and any new person that I've tried to bring it to go. I want to look at that. So you mentioned GitHub a few times. Can you expound on it? I mean, that seems to be a trend. Is that something you look at? Absolutely it is. Right. I look at it. I want to see what you're writing. I want to see what you're doing day to day. Not just talking about it. I want to see what you're being about it. I know there's a lot of pushback. I've seen both sides of the argument on tech Twitter, right? Like, well, I have a job, I have a family.

I can't be in GitHub or, you know, I'm saying like kind of the argument. What are your thoughts on it? Do it. That's another one of those. Yeah, you've been afraid to put your foot forward. Yes, I have a job. I have a family, but I still do it. I still feel bad. Right. So I've been like I've mixed before in the nonprofit. So we actually build React Native and the GraphQL systems. And these are just teaching. I pull the people out of like, out of the boot camps, to build these things, to get them real experience. Then they can take it and go do something else.

Right? This part in the build up of community, right? If you're a job fine. But how do you support your community? And that's one way I try to get there. I love that. I love that. Rapid fire here as we just do it. Yeah, yeah, 100% a little Nike commercial this morning. All right. So a few rapid fire questions for you to finish out. And again, go connect with AD on LinkedIn. And where is that the best platform to connect? Because that's the best place to find. Wait, I'll explain. Yeah, go go connect with AD, send him a DM. Obviously let him know you saw him on guidance counselor 2.0 this morning.

Again, send a note when you connect with people. Because if you don't AD, he's going to be like, I don't know how I know you write. So please send a note when you connect with people. So AD kind of rapid fire here. I've started to ask this question. This is a new question. And I always, I need to open with this. And I always forget because it's like not part of my like routine. When you were in grade school, what did you want to be when you grow up, grow up, grow up, grow up, whatever? And do you think you'd be good at it now?

I wanted to be an attorney. And no, I would not be good. Bro, I want to be an attorney too. And I am the biggest wimp when it comes to argument. They're like feasibly is. So I get that. I love that. I love that. Second question is, any tools, technologies, frameworks that you're kind of messing with right now on the side. You mentioned GraphQW that you're pretty stoked about. Is there anything else? Utilize in large language models with graph database. Instead of a vector database. I'm to him with that. That sounds fancy. Very fancy. If I told you tomorrow that you couldn't do anything in tech, but I've cut you the same check that you're making now, what would you do?

I'll be a chef. Nice. Yeah, of course. Really? Heck, yeah. I love that. What type of vibe food? What were we talking about? So I'll say some salmon. There you go. And some ribeye. So yeah, I'll be able to see food in the space. I love seafood. I love seafood so much. Awesome. Last question. If we wrap up here, because I got to hop to another meeting, we had guidance counselors in middle school, high school, and college. But now as adults, we don't really have them. That's why this show is called. Guidance counselor 2.0. What would be your biggest piece of career advice if you could go back to AD early on in his career and just sit you down and tell you something, just to kind of make yourself relaxed?

What would they? You got this. The impostive syndrome is real. If I went and heard about that earlier in my career, then I really brought my little clothes to where I had to think. But it's OK, do it. Right? Everybody knows what has all the answers. Just do it. And someone in the chat just do it. Take the lead floor. You said just do it a few times. You're all about execution. I'm on the back with you, Silicon. Making a habit like you fail fast. Right? Everything's not going to be perfect. It's just going to be perfect initially. The fail fast, learn from it and keep going.

I love it. I love it. AD stay on real quick, sexy about you. Thanks, y'all, for hanging out with us this morning. Go connect with AD. Had a bunch of viewers. I can see the ticker on my screen. So glad you guys enjoyed it. Go connect with AD. AD, appreciate you, my friend. And y'all have a great Tuesday. And no, no live tomorrow. I got a few things I got to knock out. But we'll be back on Thursday. Y'all have a good one. Peace. Hey, you did it. You listened to an entire episode. And I am very grateful. Because you know why? There's a lot of podcasts out there.

There's a lot of episodes. And I myself rarely finish an entire episode. So I appreciate you so, so much for listening. Quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the app store. I want this to be discoverable to others and the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it. Please, like right now, unless you're driving, then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me at T-Dasting on all social media handles. And I hope you have a fantastic day.