how to stand out in your search to a founder w/ nizar zaher

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auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

Alrighty, let's see here. Make sure. Oh, I have to I have to text one more thing. Good morning, everybody. When I say everybody, I mean nobody. No one's here yet. Uh, also shout out Nizzy for being here. Uh, because the damn invite, uh, did not get to him. >> So, uh, Savvy Cow, if you're watching, we need to fix that. Um, let's see here. Got send out this last message to my Sweet. Awesome. Alrighty. Cool. All right. So, Nizzy, I always ask folks this uh at the beginning. It's a nice little ice breaker as I'm drinking my second cold brew today. Are you a coffee or tea guy or no beverages?

>> I'm I'm more of a coffee guy. I used to have four or five coffees a day, which is not >> my man. >> Yeah, my man. Um, but yeah, lately I've just, you know, narrowed that down to like two coffees a day and then I >> Matcha's grown on me a lot. >> Really? My wife's a big matcha fan. >> There's a few spots in Nashville that I like, >> but it's got to be a little sweet. Otherwise, you're like grass. >> I I I agree with that. It's It's not great when it's just the matcha itself, but she makes it at home and it's >> it's pretty good.

I mean, the caffeine doesn't hit the same, but >> Sure. >> Are you So So then So then here here's the next question I always ask folks. Are you hot or iced coffee? >> Oh, hot. 100% hot. >> Really? >> I'm from Canada, a cold country, and Okay. Really have I mean, people drink iced coffee in the summer, but >> I've just grown up drinking like hot hot stuff. >> I love it. My My hot take is I feel like if you're drinking hot coffee, you can't really taste the coffee. It's just hot liquid in your mouth. But that's just my like hot take. But I appreciate >> So good morning.

Yeah. >> Now you're in San Francisco. >> Uh I was I'm back due to some visa issues. >> Okay, cool. But yeah, I will be I'm gonna be in San Francisco. >> Do Do you have a favorite water coffee spot in San Francisco you want to give a shout out to? >> They all suck. >> They're all terrible. Honestly, I was really disappointed. Um I mean I go because I want to support this local businesses, but I was just like >> just like high prices and the coffee not quality and the customer service is pretty bad. So I just made coffee. >> There you go.

There you go. You heard it here first, folks. Coffee in San Francisco sucks. >> Maybe I'm wrong. I do have to say uh when I my wife and I did like Pacific Coast Highway. We went from like Oregon all the way down to S to San Diego. We stopped in San Francisco for like a day or two. I I I'll never forget I did have a I'm not a latte guy, but they had this like vanilla paste latte that still sticks out in my head as like it was sight glass coffee. It was really really good. Um but typically I mean I'm on my second cold brew of the day.

Um so yeah, that's me. All right, we got some people tuning in. Good morning. Welcome. Uh for those of you tuning in, please say, "Hey, would love to hear from you." You know, I I talk about this with every guest. The guests are important. I go live with guests so you can get actual real practical tactical information from these guests. But also too, what I've realized is this just a virtual meetup is what it is. Um you I was telling Nizzy backstage for five years now. I was doing it every day for about four years, which is relatively aggressive. That's kind of my personality type.

Um just to go balls to the wall. Um, so we're pulling it back now to twice a week, but I've been doing it for four years every day. And so, like I tell folks, like this is just a really good virtual meetup. So, um, please say, "Hey, would love to hear from you. I know a lot of people network in the comments." I tell folks like network with everybody I bring on. Message, uh, Nizzy is is more active on Twitter on X. Uh, so message him, follow him. Um, but, uh, otherwise, please say, "Hey, would love to hear from you." Want to give uh, kind of some housekeeping things.

As always, shout out Appright. Um, I'm I'm probably the only non non-technical person on a hero program of a tech of a tech company. So, shout out appreite great piece of software, great crew over there. Uh, listen, we got a lot going on in Torque community. We just launched a book club. I'm not a reader, but we have a book club now. Uh, we also are doing we're doing like a showand tell uh type vibe for people who want to get started public speaking virtually. Um, so jump in torque. Communities where you can learn all that stuff. And if you want to know when I go live with great guests like Nizzy, um, please shoot me a text.

This is actually me. not some AI bot. It's actually my second number. So text live to 6152355650. Uh and you will just kind of get you're it's not I'm not going to spam you. It just the the text goes directly to you. Um and uh uh let's see here. What else? I think that's it. Cool. We got some people tuning in. Alex, good morning. Roxy, Chris, Angelo, it's great to see you all this morning. Marcus, good to see you. All right, Nizzy, let's give the people what they want, man. Who are you? What do you do? And then we'll dive into your story. >> Sure.

Uh, yeah. So, my name is Izzy. It's a nickname for Nazar. I'm 23 years old and I run an AI email company called Mail Zero. >> There you go. I love it. I love it. I'm gonna I'm gonna throw up your I'm gonna throw up your your handle on Twitter, too. It's >> Nizzy. Uh, ABI. Let's see here. ABI. Sweet. Awesome. Yeah, go follow Nizzy. He's he's he's a fun follow. Devon, it's good to see you this morning. So, all right. So, so I I I talk about networking. I talk about sliding DMs with strangers all the time. Uh this this is one of them, right?

So, I I've been following Izzy for a bit. I don't know how I followed him. Um probably shout out to the ex algorithm. Um and and I always watch what people say. Um and uh and and Nizzy posted something recently where he talked about really how to stand out uh in the sea of applicants. Um, and and and so Nizzy, I I want to go and dive into this, but I do want to get to your story about your career as well, but I want to just go and start with the meat and potatoes of this conversation. You you mentioned about how to stand out.

Developers need to do a lot of things. Obviously, you hire developers. You've recently gone through hiring folks. How can people stand out right now in this market, especially in a sea of AI résumés, fake resumes, all that jazz? Um it's it's honestly just doing a bit more research on where you're applying to. Like um we we'll delve into like my my first engineering job at cal.com. >> Sure. >> But like >> I think the the sort of AI applicant thing that we're in now where it was just using AI and everything sounds the same is actually an advantage to people that don't use it. Um you'll be able to find ways to stand out.

Maybe it's writing a little bit more about yourself. Um and then more importantly studying the company that you're actually applying to. Networking. crazy. And that that just seems really simple to me. >> It it is. It just takes a bit more effort. Um like instead of an application taking you like 10 seconds to upload your your PDF file, you could just find a way to DM the founder. Um maybe if they're in your area, you try to go to a meetup and talking to them. Try talking to them. Um but trying to find ways to do stuff differently has always been an approach I've tried to take.

>> Sure. And it's it's such an like you said, it's it's an easy thing to do, but it just takes a little bit more effort. Um, but it goes so far. You may not get every like every job that you apply to, but you will definitely get a response. It won't be like blocked or it won't at least be ignored by by the people that are reading your applications. Sure. >> And that that that lesson can be applied to almost everything you do in life. So, there's like no downside to at least trying to be different. >> Yeah. Emory, why doesn't everyone ask their dad for a job?

Uh I my my very first job was in the restaurant industry working for my dad. So me too. >> Really? For real? That's great. Yeah. Fellow restaurant bros. You know I saw I saw a tweet where it's like millennials don't have Well, you're you're more like Gen Z, but um you know millennials don't have like world wars to reference. You know I didn't you know serving in whatever. Um uh for us we have did you work for restaurant, did you work for hotel or did you work for retail? So I served two of the three uh which was ret which was retail and restaurant. So >> definitely war zones exactly restaurants.

It's uh it's tough. >> So one of the things one one of the things I was at uh that I loved about your your your tweet and I want to kind of dive into it like is people building stuff maybe with the product, right? and and and may and maybe I maybe I'm pulling that from another thing, but I think you said like show what you can do specifically with the product maybe that you're h how do you like to be approached as a founder? I mean if somebody like what does somebody create an email alternative? >> It's not what you're doing. >> Okay. So for me like in we're a really small startup like we just started we're we're less than five people and our approach has been can this person be a founder like can they start their own company that's like the one thing we're looking for are they agentic can they can they take matters into their own hands and work on things and be creative and not need me to handhold them.

>> I love that. Um and and looking through that approach, it doesn't really matter what they build like whether they have email experience whether they have one year of experience, six months of experience. Um the most important thing is are they willing to learn and are they able to do stuff on their own. So that resonates and and that sort of translates to people building stuff. So why I love Twitter so much is people post a ton of content and they post things that they're building. Yeah. >> And oftentimes when people DM me, they they have nothing posted. So I don't know if they're building anything.

I don't know if they're doing stuff on their own. Um but yeah and the people that that really stand out are those that are either like contributing to the repository so you know just developers uh to open this project >> but even just working on their own projects. I mean I saw someone talk I I didn't end up hiring him because uh we didn't >> like we had his role already. Um but he worked on this amazing project. It was a beautiful beautifully engineered app. um tons of users, thousands of users, and I was so inclined to hire him even though we didn't need him because he worked on something this crazy.

>> But like just thinking, okay, can this person run his own company? That's like what I'm looking for. >> Yeah. >> The number people look for. You know, a lot of people ask right now, you know, again, kind of throughout my career, I've worked with a wide range of engineers coming out of boot camp to staff level out in the Bay Area and and I feel like there's a shift happening right now where you kind of have to do the job before you get the job. >> Sure. >> What are your thoughts on that? I mean, you know, a lot of people like, well, I need to work on my portfolio page and I need to I you know, I need to make sure I have all my eyes dosed and te's crossed there.

I'm like, why don't you just build something and get like your neighbors using the app? Like like what are your what are your thoughts? Because I feel like we're there, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts. >> Yeah, I I agree. I I get like five DMs a day with people just uploading their resumes and it's just like this page of like a thousand words. I'm like, I can't read through this. I don't want to read through this. The same thing with with a portfolio page. Like, it's cool that you built this beautiful site. Um, but like I agree with with with your statement like build something, have people use it because at the end of the day, you're work you're going to be working for someone that's doing that exact thing.

>> Yeah. >> So, you might have the skills and you're going to showcase the skills in the interview, but to get the interview, you have to find a way to stand out. And that's why I'm saying like you you need to be a bit different. If everyone's doing that one that one strategy, um, you your chances are are much lower to actually getting an interview or or getting the job. >> Yeah, absolutely. Let me let me let me ask you this. Let's Let's So, so and and by the way, talk talk about mailzero.com. By the way, I threw it up on the screen. We we haven't plugged what you're doing yet, so talk about it real fast.

>> I mean, yeah, it's it's an AI native email client. So, we're still in beta. So, if you guys have any feature recommendations, we'd love to hear it. Okay. >> But the essential idea behind it is we want to sort of change how email is is is made. um with with tools like AI and and all all the other cool things that we have today. Uh we think that email is one of those things that will change in the next few years and you know reading emails, responding to emails, um cluttered inboxes will will be a thing of the past in a few years and uh we want to be the company to actually solve that that problem.

>> I love that. I love that. and kind of so to dovetail on that, talk about kind of your your career to get here, you know, where where did you start out at your first job search? Let's kind of talk about that. >> Yeah. So, I I studied law in uh in university in Canada here. >> Um graduated, didn't really want to be a lawyer, so I uh I was a few days late to the to the law school application, so I was like, "This is perfect. I get a year off." So, I just started learning random things. I was really interested in building. So, you know, I tried construction.

I tried all these different things, but engineering really stood out. So, I I I took a few YouTube courses. Um, ended up building a few websites. Um, and then I guess it's like four or five months later, I I I felt like I was ready to apply to a job. Okay. >> So, I I just looked around, saw what was interesting to me. >> And the one the one company that stood out to me was was Cal.com. Sure. >> This like scheduling company. I think I think a ton of people would know about it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, their application was a one minute video on why they should hire you.

>> Really? Like like that like that was pretty much it. >> Yeah. No. No resume. Just >> No way. >> One minute video. >> Okay. >> Um but I hacked the system and I saw that it didn't it wasn't limiting to one minute. Like it could be like as long as you want. >> Interesting. >> And it didn't need to be like just any sort of it didn't have to be just you talking. So I'm like, everyone applying to this is going to be standing and just being being super boring. >> Yeah. They're going to be light. >> Yeah. So I downloaded Loom and I I I literally showed everything I built.

So I built I built a few projects. I actually had a YouTube channel at the time with like 15,000 subscribers. I realized they're looking for someone with a bit more marketing experience. So the role was like a growth engineer. >> Yeah. Basically talking to devs, uh, website stuff, growth stuff. >> Um, so I I I leaned into that. I learned more about the founders. I saw what they were interested in, which was like open source, and they were really like hard into open source. So, I showed them projects I worked at and uh or worked on and >> like it was like a threeminute video >> and I was like, "This is why you guys should hire me.

This is what I have. I I could be like I I was like super junior at the time. I was not a great dev. I wasn't anything like that." But um that got them interested interested enough to uh interview me. Okay. >> And uh on the interview there were like five or six people there and it was like super scary. It was like this is the first job. >> Yeah. like law, didn't want to do law, >> trying to figure it out. I mean, you were you were green green. >> I was I was like it was it was a few months into my development career.

Uh and in the interview, I was just myself, I guess. Like I just I was pretty calm. I wasn't like formal or anything. I uh I was just, you know, just >> having fun. Um and they asked me a few questions. I I think I did pretty well. Um and then at the end of the interview, they uh you know, they said, you know, we we'll get back to you in a few days. that day they they messaged me saying that they they want to chat. Um and on the on on that chat they they told me that they want to hire me. Um matter of fact they they chose me over like Microsoft and Google employees which is weird >> but they just liked how I I the stuff I built.

I was interesting enough um my YouTube channel uh you know my content my engineering work it wasn't great but it there was something there. >> Yeah. So they they took a chance on me and I matter of fact I was one of their their best employees. They still talk about me they say. >> There you go. There you go. That's awesome. So So how long were you there for? >> I was I was there for eight months. >> Okay. Okay. And then what So golly there there's so much things to unpack here. I I let's let's continue on but I'm kind of pinning some things.

What made you jump right? like I mean you're working at cal.com a lot of people know it pretty hot you know from a scheduling app perspective >> um man yeah what what what made you jump something else and especially starting your own company >> I I was honestly just like interested in it um I I was enjoying my time at at Cal I was working directly with the founders which was crazy like I was I was with them every day >> just absorbing so much so much like lessons that I it take me like five or six years to learn and they were awesome people.

Um I just like every founder like you you're attracted to your own company and you want to build something and you always want to try stuff. >> Sure. >> And I I just had this idea of building some something with with email. >> Uh you know made a few posts got some social validation eventually just started working on it more and more and then I eventually just went all in on it and I was fairly confident that it would uh it would do well. >> I love that. I love that. So, uh, let me, uh, you know, Roxy comes in here and goes, "Someone mentioned a video resume the other day.

Is that unique enough to try?" I feel like you you've mentioned YouTube, you've mentioned build in public, you've mentioned the video you did for cal.com. It seems that video is the medium that can really break down walls to get to know get get somebody to know who you are faster. >> Sure. >> What do you What do you think of this? So for Cal they they required a video like it didn't have any resume uploader. It was a video uploader >> which which honestly I love to be honest. >> It was on it was it was interesting. I I really like that idea. Um so yeah I definitely agree with the idea that video is is a great medium for getting to know someone and and is is different enough.

Um but I I would honestly even say just being interest an interesting individual. um you know building projects is so valuable especially if you can like build something that people are using like you said about getting your neighbors to use your product phenomenal just amazing um and I think as as companies get smaller and >> skill sets matter less because of tools like AI um these things are going to be like the differentiators for for like a a job listing and getting a job in the first place >> you know one of one of the things um so I went live yesterday with um a senior engineer at Cloudflare and we were talking about um just staying out interview process.

We talked about having proof of your work when you and you made a comment earlier. Again, my brain's all over the place this morning, but you made a comment earlier just about how like you like to see people building public. You know, I one of my dear friends, Kelly Vaughn, she's a senior engineer at Zapier. She talked about how cuz I asked her point blank. I said, "Do you want to see somebody's portfolio site or do you want to see what they're actually talking about on social and if it lines up?" And she was like, "I'd much rather read some some LinkedIn post that somebody made." She goes, "If I'm looking for an API engineer, I'd rather read some stuff that they've written about." I mean, it sounds like you're kind of in that same camp like like you're definitely an observer of what people are building in public.

>> 100%. >> That's how that's how I found my co-founder. That's how I found Yeah. >> That's how we found our first two three engineers was just >> really >> So, so you didn't even post you didn't see this is this the point I'm trying to get across. A lot of people like people aren't hiring. I people are hiring. They're just not posting the roles anymore because there's so much out there >> and people are always hiring. Like even if there's no job posting and they say that there not hiring, like >> if if you had a like if you find a $100 bill like in the on the road, right, just on the floor and you have money like you you're still going to take the money.

>> Yes. >> It's so it's valuable. >> Yes. >> So it's like if there's someone that's so valuable to your company that you think will change like change everything for you, like you're gonna you're gonna try to hire that person no matter what. >> Yeah. Absolutely. I don't know if you can hear the thunder. There's a massive storm happening outside of my door right now. Um, so let let me ask you this. How so? Do you think X Twitter like I feel like that's like the best way to get in front of people? Like what are your what are your thoughts on just X as a medium in terms of networking?

>> Yeah, it's it's remarkable. Um, it's it's almost like a resume post place. Like it's not even not like I don't even know what to call it, but >> a resume. Let's just go with that. A resume post place. That's great. Yeah. That's a little not not the best wording, but yeah, just just a >> people are always showing what they've built. >> Yes. >> And either directly or indirectly, they're that signals to companies that oh, this person's might be like good for us. >> Um I think a ton more and more people are actually getting jobs this way. >> I I agree. And I think that's the general notion of like the market.

>> Yeah. >> The market's like, well, no one's hiring. Well, the market, all these trends are just aggregating job postings. >> Yeah. >> You've hired two people that you never posted a job for. >> Yeah. >> Right. Let me ask you this. Like like do you think do h how would you use X if you were not a founder you and you were just on the job search? How would you use X? I will I would build as much as I can build things interesting to me and what I might think would be interesting to other people and post about it. So it would be a demo video.

It would be how I built this. It would be screenshots but just showing show and tell >> show I built >> every single day. That that's literally what I would do for like as as long as until I got a job. >> Yeah, absolutely. I I love this Leela coming in. Drop X usernames. I love it. Well, here's here's here's Nizzies. go follow him. Um, so, uh, another thing, oh, I know what I was getting at. I lost my train of thought. The Cloudflare guy I was interviewing yesterday. He talked about one of the most powerful skills for him is being able to do video and to talk about his coding while he's doing it.

And he said he would he'd like practice on like leak code or just different questions. What are your thoughts on that? Because it sounds like if you're able to talk about what you're building and what you're coding, again, we're kind of getting to that next level of the job search. Yeah. I mean, is is most of the audience here like engineers? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Most engineers don't know how to communicate. They either really good at coding or they're not great like are great at communicating. I think that's such a valuable thing because like a high ranking like a CEO needs to know how to communicate >> and a CTO might need to know how to communicate and and actually code as well.

And I think both are equally as valuable now. Um it's quite rare and I urge people to just like at least learn a little bit how to communicate and and actually like show show and tell is the same thing I guess. Um but yeah I I agree with that statement like knowing how to communicate is very valuable especially working with bigger teams like you're communicating all the time and like if you don't know how to communicate you're you're you're like Uh oh. All right, guys. I'm gonna I'm going to text him, but I will uh just mute myself you there? >> Yep. You there? >> Yeah.

>> All right. Yep. Uh my internet my literally this storm just like literally dropped. I'm literally running off my hot spot right now. All right. You can Can you hear me? >> Yeah, I can hear you. >> All right. We're Hold on. Let me see if All right. This is This is crazy. Are we here? We here. Yes. The storm took out my internet. Jordan storm to Oh, we're on hotspot right now. All right. What are we talking about? Yes. The power of talking and typing at the same time. >> Yeah. >> Great. Yeah. Very val very very valuable skill. >> Yes. Awesome. What else right now um as we What else right now in terms of your career do you think has really differentiated yourself?

Um just in your career that that maybe we haven't gotten to quite yet. Is there anything else? Any other nuggets of wisdom by chance? >> There's nothing like special. I think like everyone else is pretty much the same as me. Like I went to university. I'm not like a super talented developer. Most people probably better developers than me. >> Um, but like standing out >> I'm going interrupt you real quick. I'm interrupt you quick. I think this is a big point. >> You just said there probably other developers better than you, right? Cal.com, you said you beat out some folks, but again, I feel like it's doing the things differently.

>> That that's that's the point I was trying to get to. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. just like the when when prompted with a thing to do, you want you want to find ways to stand out and like Yeah. >> looking for ways not to be lazy on like an application is is like the number one thing. >> Yeah. talk about um so a a as we wrap up here um if do do you think that people should just like cold DM founders if they have something cool to showcase like like like you're not hiring probably right now maybe you are maybe you're not I don't know but like will you always gladly look at DMs are like hey dude I don't know if you're hiring but I built this I think this could be pretty cool what are your thoughts on this >> yeah I And there's no like downside to doing it.

Yeah. >> So yeah, like the return is >> like it doesn't cost you anything to actually send the DM. So there's like actually no downside. So the return on that is like infinite if you do like the best case scenario is you get a job. The worst case just no response. >> So um I I look at DMs as often as I can. I get a decent amount. So like I I can't most of the time. Um but when I >> you came back to me, >> of course, man. Uh but like most of the time I'm uh I'm at least somewhat active on uh on my main threads and like the actual Twitter Twitter posts.

Yeah. So um but yeah, like DMing I've seen people get jobs through DMs. >> Yeah. >> So yeah. >> Yep. Yep. Absolutely. All right. So that was crazy. Sorry for all the Sorry for all the the rigomearo. This this storm is nuts. Um yeah, right here Jordan comes here. I beat out people with degrees for my first job because I took the initiative to network people. I mean again like I said and I think it's like what is saying like I think >> I've said this time and time again I think where we're at in the market right now is you're not no one's given a job anymore right I think 2021 2022 with the massive amount of hiring going on I think really kind of set a really poor expectation for job seekers and I think now I think doing the things differently leveraging video more during the during your interview process is huge.

Um uh I mean again, right, this is kind of this is kind of outside a little bit, but so a buddy of mine, so I play ice hockey. Um my team won last night. Um but a buddy of mine used to was running content for this hockey company. He is no longer there anymore. They moved on from him. they had they do not have any sort of content plan and they they've completely gone away from my feed and and like it's like a vacuum like the next day he was not there I did not see any post from them anymore and so for me I think the constant building in public and even even on X2 what's crazy about X like you don't need to have a ton of followers you can just start following people that get caught up in your algorithm I will tell you this I engage with a lot of folks like Nizzy like a lot of founders building really cool stuff I follow I repost and the algorithm keeps feeding you more of that.

So if you engage with founders, engage with senior engineers, keep follow like they'll pop up in your feed and keep following them. Like X can kind of become this like huge title wave if you make it in terms of getting in front of the right people. >> Totally >> awesome. All right, so again, sorry about the power. Um all right, Nizzy. So I got to rapid fire questions here. Um um I I use chat GPT for it. Um and I really like them. All right, so first question. Outside of your own company, what is one tech tool app that you can't live without right now?

>> Cursor. >> Cursor. Love it. Great answer. Um next question. I know you talked about it. The very first job you ever had, the very first paying job you ever had. >> Oh, that's the question. Okay. >> Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. What was the very first job you've ever had? >> Yeah. uh working at a pizza shop uh owned by my parents. >> Nice. Was it Was it good pizza or just kind of meeting? >> It was good pizza. It was actually pretty good pizza. Yeah. >> I love it. I love it. Um it's so funny. Everybody's first job is in the in the uh restaurant industry that I've interviewed lately.

It's great. Um remote. So, I know you're running a company. If you had your ideal situation, everybody on site, few days on site, what kind of cadence do you like either personally or from a business perspective uh for on-site versus remote? I I typically prefer like onsite and and having that sort of ecosystem where everyone's like on in person, but I think well I know there's talent outside of just the area you're in and like remote might be the move. Like we're a remote company now and I think it's a better better outcome for us um because we were able to hire people from like all over the world.

>> Yeah. Yeah. and and it's just a you have to put in the effort to build the culture and you just have to be chatting all the time and making sure that you're talking as much as you can like these are things you have to do and it's a bit more difficult but I think we're getting the hang of it and I I think more and more companies are actually going to be doing this remote thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Next question. What's a career mistake in hindsight that you made that you're oddly grateful for? Um, this isn't a career one, but I I missed the law school deadline.

So, I I was supposed to apply to law school on my last year of college, and I didn't. And part of me wanted to, part of me didn't. >> And uh at the time, I thought I I messed up by like missing out, >> but like looking back, I probably wouldn't have become an engineer if I went to college. >> Yeah. Isn't that crazy? >> That's crazy. That's crazy. I I I love stuff. Everything works out. Everything works out. Um, second last question. If you weren't in tech, so say I tell you tomorrow morning that you that you can't do what you're doing at mail.zero.com, but the money is about the same or whatever.

What profession would you pursue? >> Probably like a a franchise, like a restaurant franchise owner. >> For real? Any specific type of restaurant vibe you you'd go for? >> Fast food? I probably say like >> Yeah, like McDonald's, Sonic, Waterburger, something like that. >> Why? I'm kind of curious. Why is that? >> I don't know. I just I I like fast food. Um it's interesting and I think you could do pretty well if you operate it correctly. And >> I agree. >> Like franchising like a McDonald's if like all you have to do is just run it. I think you you're able to make money from it.

So >> yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I like people who like franchise Chick-fil-A just like hand over money. >> It's insane. Um, all right. Last question, man. Again, sorry, sorry for everybody watching about the power adage. That was crazy. Um, uh, this show's called guidance counselor 2.0. The reason why I called it this is because we had guidance counselors in middle school, high school, and college, but now as adults, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask for general career advice. If you go back in time and tell young Nizzy, I mean, you already are young, so like younger Nizzy, what what >> Like you said it, like things will work out.

>> Yeah. >> Um I don't know. I still think like this, but whenever something goes wrong, it's like the end of the world. But I think most of us know like you'll be okay even if you don't get the thing you want. >> Just always being like grateful for being in like the scenario you're in. Yeah. >> Um, things can like always be worse. Like we're we all have access to the internet. That's like that that's the biggest gift. And I think utilizing that gift is like the the only thing you can really do is like just just try try And even if things don't go your way, um, you'll you'll be fine.

Uh, you have family that can support you. You have friends that you can talk to. And I think that's like the most important thing. >> Totally agree. Totally agree. All right y'all. Well, again, go follow Nizzy on X. He's a great follow. Um, shoot him a DM. to say it was good to see him this morning on guidance counselor 2.0. Y'all have a good one. Again, we're moving guidance counselors just two days a week. So, this is it for me for the rest of the week. Um, we'll see you in the Torque Discord. Nizzy say on so I can say bye to you backstage. Y'all have a good one.

We'll see y'all next week. Peace.