take home tests

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Higher managers. If you watch this now or in the future, stop. You got to stop. There are better ways to actually, I would argue, I would argue that code evaluations hurt you more as an organization than help you and here's why. First off, the companies out there that are not doing in my 10 years of recruiting, the companies that actually have organic conversations around what those people have done, developers have done. You know, kind of do some technical deep dive over the phone, gotten to really know that person and what makes them tick. I would argue, I don't have stats in front of you. So if you're a stats guy or girl, like I understand.

But I would argue and tell you that those companies have had better success at keeping and retaining talent, especially during interview process. Because no joke. No joke. I'm dealing with a few individuals right now that have four or five take on tests. All two to three hours each. Like it's crazy. Like we're back in high school again. Like we're literally back in high school again. And then those individuals have jobs. Those individuals have families. Like they can't sit there and take 15 hours of code tests. And so companies, you've got to think that you I'm so tired and this is a little rant today. So bear with me.

I'm so tired of companies thinking that their shit don't think. And I'm sorry I'm cursing this morning, but I get passionate about this topic. I'm telling you companies you are not the only fish in the sea right now. There's a million other fish in the sea and you're best, you're best talent that you're fine that your interview right now doesn't have to complete your code test. And the whole push back is like, well, we don't want them in the organization anyways. If they don't complete our code test really really. That's the stamps you're going to take about losing top talent that's already hard enough to find.

I'm telling you companies right now are missing out in higher majors. This is a plea to you. If you are a hiring manager. Currently or in the future and you watch this now in the future. I am telling you this. Give up the code test. Give up the cake take on test now. You're probably watching this right Taylor. We as an organization like I hear you kind of, but we have to evaluate. We have to evaluate the individual somehow. Well, first off, get better at asking questions. Second off, I'm fine. I'm fine with a live coding thing real time solving a problem together. Hey, we're going to solve this problem together.

And we're going to work through it and it's a part of the interview process. I'm fine with that right first round. And our phone call tell me about stuff. What have you done? Here's what we do. Blah blah blah. The next call to our call the first hour is a conversational deep dive and then there's a technical deep dive the second hour. And then you're done. And then maybe another 45 minute call with an exec for a check off. And that's it. That's it. I'm not kidding you. I have a company right now. I'm not kidding you. I have a company right now. That is not doing a take home test.

But, and this is another thing about interview like interview rounds. They have seven rounds. Seven rounds. Why are we doing this? Hold on. Why are we doing this? To me, it's egos, right? There are people in the interview process that have to have their chance to shine have to be able to talk to a person because they feel like their opinion is valid. More than anyone else. Listen at the end of the day step down. Step down. Have some individuals who are your interview team. Have your have your have your have a group that's your interview team. You guys have decided on what those people are interviewing for and then and then that's it.

You don't need Daggle them 10 people in the interview process. You don't. So going back to emails. Again, I'm fine with a live some sort of thing during a Zoom call or Zoom interview. But that and a take home test. It's too much. It's too much. It's too much. I'm going to go to comments again. If you have comments, questions, concerns. Real life stories. Please throw it up there. Let me know. Marco, I'll get I'll get that question at the end. I'll get that question at the end Marco. I'm any good morning. Oscar good morning. Let's see here. Casey, I will not show you my best work on a take home test.

I will show you my best work on a project that I work on. I'm going to go to a process over 24 seven. Let me talk you through my design decisions. You'll learn a lot about my passion as a developer. Again, like I agree with this. Right. I think take home test now. I know companies offer like we can do it live or we can do it take home and I have a lot of high and I'm going to probably watch this and you're like, Hey, tell your range about this. We give the option. I get that though. But it's still a really long test.

Like, let's shorten the test. What are you trying to solve? Right. I think that's the thing I'm trying to get across as a company. What are you trying to solve? Are you trying to solve somebody's? I don't know. Our rhythms data structures. Are you trying to solve somebody's ability to think critically? Are you trying to solve someone's ability to work together with other people? What are you trying to solve with this code test? I think you need to ask yourself and then create the code test around that. And again, Casey, I love this. I love this. Yeah, take home test doesn't show anything. Because what I have learned as a recruiter dealing with engineers for the last seven years is that hiring managers and senior leadership wants to know how people work through a problem and work together.

You will not find that on a take home test. Andrew, good morning. So, to teach your what's up, girl. I am not feeling the take home test. I think most companies think that the people job seeking out home watching TV. Yeah, 100%. Right. People have jobs. That's not a sign another interview or another code test after that. Casey care. Pre- what's the question you've done? I understand that I'm only one person in the staffing industry. I'm only one person in the sea of people who see other things. Right. So, for me, when I say this, Shauna in a second, I always pray for saying this is just me.

I've never had a company go, hey, you know what? Submit that person's portfolio and or get hub with their resume. Never. Never. Never. Never had it. Never had it. I'm not saying my portfolio and I up before I job search. No. Just get your dang resume and LinkedIn update and let's roll because I've never had a higher major as for portfolio or code sample. Why do companies make it so complex when they need a talent? Any girl? No idea. Listen, I could end on this question right here. Like this is it. I don't know. I don't know why the interview process is, hey, I don't want you convince me I want you.

The interview process needs to be I want you, but we're going to ask some questions to make sure you're legit and then we'll take you. The interview process needs to change needs to change. Seven rounds that's overkill. Yeah, I mean, three. In my opinion, three rounds in two weeks. Three rounds two weeks. Upon submission of the resume, higher managers, you have about 48 hours to schedule first round. After the first round, you have 72 hours to schedule the group round. After that, you have 24 hours to get feedback and schedule one fun around if you need it and that's it. That's it. Hey, Garrett looking forward to a Lisa commented on this.

I don't know if a Lisa's on Alicia show yourself. Scott, Mysy, it is screen share screen on text editor app type of situation. There you go. Take home test you build by the hour. All right. So Oscar brings up another thing. Oscar brings up another thing. Yeah, I think companies should pay. I know I got into a huge Twitter conversation about this. Some companies are like we spend a lot of money interviewing people and I go well and I'm like well maybe you shouldn't ask better questions on the front end to weed people out. Again, it's about asking better questions. Companies are lazy interviewing. You can be so lazy during interviews.

So what companies do is they hide behind processes and they hide behind code tests to not have the responsibility on them during the interview process. I'm going to say that again, I think companies are lazy. I think companies hide behind processes hide behind codey bows. So they don't have to take responsibility on the fact that they're lazy and asking questions during an interview. Tiffany, I have a take home assessment where I have to build an app for a facial recognition during two weeks. I played for a junior role. People, Tiffany, I'm sorry people are wild. Annie, we're true. Thank you for agreeing with me. Casey, I have no idea what I'm doing.

I see your Mac goes recently to interview a small company where they talked with me and asked me some recent projects and asked for some recent projects. Well that's good. That's good. That's good. I love that. I love that. I have a few take home tests after completed one of the projects. I have an offer to work a month for free as a trial because I know working experience at the time. Hassan, if it's an internship, I'm fine with that. But if it's not an actual job and they're not paying you, I think that's not good. Should I negotiate an apprenticeship or should I just be happy to get an offer?

I would, what do you mean LinkedIn user? What do you mean, negotiate? I mean, by negotiating an apprenticeship. I'm a firm believer that you should offer, if you can afford it, you need to offer your time for free somewhere. And add that to your resume. I think that's huge. Tiffany goes, yeah, absolutely. I'm a coordinator, well, at least you're not enjoying it. Not joining us today. Cole, walk and talk through your own work as a fantastic idea as dead as we're already short for time and give ourselves plenty of take home work to do after clock. Always learning, always hustling. Yeah, again, I think there needs to be, there needs to be more of a organic conversation or interviewing, right?

It's not always just a, it's not always just like, you know, a full send on the take home. Yeah, I was chased. What's going on, girl, a lot of other people in the back. And I talk, tag all higher majors. Yeah, I mean, listen chase chase works for us. And I mean, it's it's crazy. It is the most like I'm getting frustrated, just talking to you all this morning because it is so mind boggling to me that companies tie themselves so much to these that they lose, they lose out on people. No portfolio, no GitHub linked scenes like companies are shooting themselves in the foot.

But yeah, I mean again, I'm just one person, right? And if you're a recruiter and if you're a recruiter that watches us across the country at some way, shape or form your hiring manager and you ask for GitHub's, please comment, please let me know, because I wanna give you a hug. Right, I wanna give you a virtual hug because we need to do that more. Daniel goes as a first time job, so you can work on a smaller company, seem to be the Pabs Fall for now. I think so, I personally think so. That's just me. See, you are speaking a word today, passing around the offering plate.

Yeah, yeah, pass around the offer plate, I love it. It's a paid apprenticeship. Okay, great, yeah, then go ahead, yeah, paid apprenticeship, I love it, do it, I love it. Let's see here, so Chris, best Cody Val, Chris hoping in well buddy, best Cody Val I had was a live challenge where they made it clear I wasn't able to, I wasn't about the specific syntax, but more about the thought process. We talked through the challenge why essentially pseudo code is best ever, I love this. I love this, right? There was no specific syntax was more about thought process, which is like, which is in my opinion, what code test should be, I'm not technical, I don't code, I don't, I don't code, but I feel like that's correct, but that's correct.

So your core issue is that one company's EVO is not transferred to another company, agreed, agreed 100% set, I'm in here, I got a job set. Hey, let's all give sense of random applause, yeah, and that's what I want, I want you all to share your stories, right? Let me give you a shout out, set, got a job, everybody wish Seth, congratulations, slide into his DMs. Seth, that's awesome man, I'm very, very excited for you. Congratulations, I love it, I appreciate that at time. I'm glad you're here, I'm glad you're here. I'm gonna see your your Taylor great sessions so far. In fact, that one company's take home test and not transfer to another company, it's such a monument, a waste of human work.

Yeah, I mean, I don't, so, I don't know what to say, I don't, I just don't, I don't know if it's, you know, for me, so like, so when a developer takes, when a developer takes my test, so we have, we have an eval, I share my results with them, so they can share with other recruiters, but the test I use is what most recruiters don't use. For me, I think, I would ask if, if you can use the test you're using and share it with others, because companies need to, because companies need to know that, companies need to know that. See here, Seth, yeah, again, people giving Seth a shout out, Seth, yeah, Seth congrats, Seth goes to interview ahead last night, that when, well, it was basically asking me about some technical questions, the plus was that they were already in press by examples, like, I love it, I love that so much, congrats Seth congrats Seth.

So, all right, so here's what we're gonna do, like we're gonna end it here, unless, unless anybody doesn't have any questions, comments, concerns, I want to leave you with this, and we'll play with a little, we'll play with a little, I'll trim you, so. I'm gonna leave you with this today, keep grinding, job seekers keep grinding, companies do something different. My DMs are always open, if you wanna get away from the co-chairs and you're like, hey, we're like, what have you seen other companies do? Like, just, just the enemy, companies, DME, I'm willing to help. I won't charge you, right, just DME, like, what's on the conversation, because you are missing out on town, because you are requiring co-test.

Let's see here, do such a great session, I'm using Streamyard, I'm using Streamyard, check them out. Oh, yes, yes, Marko, thanks man, I appreciate it. I think I'd like a some Marko's question before we end it, turn on the music real quick. Hey, Taylor, what's the best way to stand out when you are working on changing careers? From, I would volunteer your time, like five hours a week, one hour a week to somebody, nonprofit, somebody who needs some sort of development done, and then add it to your resume. I know one developer who is working with me, he is a junior developer, I worked with him on his resume and is linked in.

He's taking on a website for a coffee shop for free to add to his experience and he can build an angular node. That's, that's, in my opinion, that is how you do it. What else, Marko, thanks for your question, going back down here, I love it, I love it, fantastic. Cool. All right, y'all, we all have a great, hunk tape, so we had a different hunk tape. I appreciate y'all for tuning in, again, shooting me at Tech 615-2565G. Share this episode, share this episode. If you are connected with hiring managers on LinkedIn, share this episode, I feel like they need to know it. They need to hear this for them to keep talent, to became talent.

So share this episode, I would love that. Y'all have a great day. Tomorrow morning, 9.30 am central, my voice at unicorn5, as we're talking with a really cool company tomorrow. I shout out, it's about coffee. We'll hear that coffee tomorrow. 9.30 am bring your coffee and let's talk. I'm not a company, that's doing cool stuff in the coffee space. Y'all have a great one, peace.