nashville technology council panel-part 2

full transcript

auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

Hey podcast family, thanks for tuning into this podcast episode really excited to bring the second episode or part two rather of the National Technology Council session I had really hope you enjoy it as Always would love for you to rate review and subscribe to this podcast I really want this podcast to continue to gain traction in the market for others to find it and use it as a tool in their job search I did get a new number, so please text me 615-235-5650. I was accepted on a text messaging platform called Community, and it basically is incredible. CRM, email, means text message. So please text me.

I would love to be your on-call guidance counselor, career advice coach, for anything. It doesn't have to be tech related, but I would love to be here for you and a resource for you for all parts of your career moving forward. So again, that's 615-235-5650. If you want to reach me as well, shoot me an email, TaylorD at vaco.com. Again, that's TaylorD at vaco.com. And I'm doing a lot of stuff on Twitter at T-Dest and as all my social media handles. And then obviously, follow me on LinkedIn as well. Hope you all enjoy it. Thanks. That's wild. That actually reminds me we've got a question here from the panel and I think it's the perfect time for it.

Should we put aside some of our wants needs in the company job we accept now since the job market is so hard pressed. That's a really good question. And I take that one. Okay. So here's our, again, for me, again, two cents, just my thoughts, I would say yes and no. Very black and white, that answer obviously. So. Yes. Yeah. So I think, I think you need, you need to. So this is one thing that I've preached a lot. you start the job search, you need to specifically know why you're looking, right? So if you still have a job while you're looking, and then, and then specifically write down what are non-negotiables for you, right?

So like, is, is, is distance and non-negotiable, right? Is pay a non-negotiable? And I would have one to three things that are non-negotiables. And then yes, right now, if maybe number four through six isn't what you want, like, or isn't providing it for you in this new job offer. If one and three are met, you need to take it. Right? I think, I think there needs to be awareness, right? I have a podcast, a little self plug here, guidance counselor 2.0, but I actually interviewed two of my dudes at Vaco and Raleigh and Tampa, and we kind of have this whole podcast around deploying empathy in the job search, right?

What does that look like? Not only from a hiring perspective but also a candidate perspective and deploying empathy in this specific case is okay I understand the job search is tough there's not a lot of jobs out there they give me one to three I probably need to go ahead and accept the offer so that's my two cents on that. I agree and you know I was joking with you Taylor about saying yes and no which is really just just another way of saying, well, it depends, right? Which is not correct. And really, I think you hit it right very simply when you said, and then it comes down to, what are your priorities, right?

And priorities shift, but right now, if your priority is a paycheck, then yes, absolutely. You should be switching, giving up some things. If you have time, if you can take a break, and you have the time to kind of decompress and be more strategic in the choices that you make and absolutely do that, but we're not all in that position, right? And so one of the things I get asked all the time is like how long should I anticipate this lasting? And I always say it really depends, right? You make that list of non-negotiables that Taylor talked about, and then we look at like, okay, well, of those, what are the target companies you're willing and interested in working in, right?

And that could be 20, it could be five. And then what are your expectations, right? And how often are those expectations going to be available in our market right now? A lot of times people ask me about relocation. And what I encourage people is if you can't relocate, that is just fine. Just accept that as your reality and stop looking at opportunities that aren't in Nashville, right? Or wherever you're located. It reminds me too of that third bullet that Steve put up, which is accept that there is a silver bullet. I put this in, this is from a talk years ago that we adjusted for today.

And so often people ask me like, I just tell me what to do, Paige, right? The clients are like, just tell me the 10 things that I need to do and that if I do those 10 things, I'll have a job in three months. And it's just never that easy, right? You know, you've got to post for jobs. You've got to network like crazy. I encourage people to target two networking meetings every single week, two, every single week, right? It's like a sales funnel. the more opportunities and connections you put in the top, those that come out at the bottom, the right one will come out, but it's a bit of a numbers game.

Steve just flashed up this next one, which we all, at first glance, this comment seems a little negative, but when you understand the story behind it, right, we were chatting about, I spent a lot of time in my corporate life with hiring managers doing a lot of debriefs after the interview. And time and time again, I would hear, they have everything on paper that I'm looking for, but gosh, like they're just facing down, they seem negative, right? They're just mad about their last situation. And one of them at one point said to me, you know, Paige, bitter is just never a good look. And I just thought that's so profound, right?

Like how do we help ourselves not stand in our own way? Because so often as candidates, we get in our own way, right? And so where you can either have a trusted advisor, have a friend that you talk to prior to going into an interview, but whatever those bad experiences are, we all have them. So recognizing you're not alone, but you gotta kind of leave them at the door and don't let them show up in that interview for you. I think that's a good time for another question we have here. And I think this is, unfortunately, happened so often and I think the recruiters against recruiters will have an opinion about this but there it's happening more than more more and more where you're applying for jobs that you're more than qualified for you go through their application process you might even go through a few rounds of interviews and then you get a canned reduction response and that's super frustrating right like you as a candidate you've put in a lot of work and time to making sure that you're putting your best foot forward, that you're leaving your bitterness at the door, and then it seems like they might not have time for you to send a personal, hey, here's why we didn't go with you.

Right? So one question I have, and I think everyone would benefit from when that happens, how do you get that personal feedback? How can you say to that recruiter or hiring manager, manager please give me the feedback as to why I didn't get accepted for this role. Yeah, yeah it's so funny I was thinking about this talk this morning I had I've received two vague rejections for my candidates and I was thinking about it because we were gonna obviously give this I give this little panel and I chuckled because I was like great here we go like I'm currently I'm in it right I'm dealing with clients giving vague feedback.

Recruiters get a bad reputation, right? And rightfully so, there's a lot of us out there that are only in it for us, only in it for the money, don't really care about the kind of experience, and totally get that. However, a lot of times the feedback is one of the most negative things about recruiters is that, well, I never get feedback, I never get feedback. I'm gonna be totally frank with you, neither do we. I mean, like it is unreal the vague feedback from hiring managers. Now that's kind of two-sided. One, a lot of times we're working through a talent acquisition individual, so a corporate recruiter who essentially is getting the feedback from the hiring managers.

And so it's not directly to the hiring managers. So the hiring manager probably within their organization is probably giving vague feedback and that's the way they do things. I think this is where deploying empathy needs to happen. I think right now I went from working with 10 people at any given time on average to 50 people. So I 5X, what's going on right now? And hiring managers are dealing with that too. I think there needs to be a very balanced line of the hiring managers being responsible and giving some sort of feedback, but also if they're giving feedback for all of the candidates that are interviewing, that's gonna be extremely, that's gonna take a lot of time.

So it's understanding that, hey, listen, maybe that manager deploying empathy, maybe that manager is overrun. What I would say to do is just tell the recruiter, I don't care what feedback you get, good, better, uh, really please give it to me. So I'm gonna be totally honest, I'm not great at it sometimes. Sometimes I feel bad. God, I don't wanna deliver this feedback. This person works so hard. they're gonna be crushed. So sometimes I don't even do the best at it. So I think giving the recruiter the permission to do this is obviously incredibly valuable. Yeah, oh my gosh, there's so many different ways to come at this.

I was sitting here thinking about how to take something that really could be a whole hour talk in itself and kind of consolidated down to a few bullet points that we have meeting for people. The first thing I would say is one of the things, as I've led large teams of recruiters, there's different levels of experience that recruiters have. And so when we're young in career as new recruiters and we're learning the job, oftentimes delivering that feedback is such an uncomfortable thing, right? And it is just easier to just say, you know, remove it, we're just going some other route. And I'm not excusing that, I'm not saying it's okay, I'm just trying to share, like in reality, sometimes you're working with someone that just does not have the experience and skill set to deliver it in a way that you're gonna hear it or they're just choosing the easy answer which is not to provide any.

A lot of times it's what Taylor said, the hiring manager has been extremely vague and the recruiter maybe doesn't have the confidence or doesn't have the support to push back on the hiring manager for more, right? So there's that going on. The other thing that I would say is, you know, as you get more experienced and as you just kind of learn, you know, over time, how much more valuable it is and how much more candidates appreciate, you know, even though you know it intellectually, you still struggle to get it out in a way that makes sense, right? I've listened to so many recruiters deliver that and when we, you know, they hang up and we do kind of an in-moment coaching and I go, how do you think that went?

They were like, I don't know. And we both, I'm like, yeah, I don't think they understood what you were trying to say, right? Like you try. Yeah. They do, they're trying, but they don't, there's sugar coating, you know, they're kind of dancing. And then finally, one of the ways that, you know, we coach recruiters to do it is really just to ask you to candidate, right? Like, well, how do you think it went? And more often than not, candidates would say to me, well, I thought this, I really nailed, this I really nailed. got in this part. I was either fluttering my words or I went way off on a tangent or I could just tell by their body language that I wasn't hitting it on the park.

And that opens the door because then they're open to be invulnerable and we can have a dialogue about, okay, so what do you think, you know, you might do differently next time or what do you think, what did you wish you had done? So a lot of times you as a candidate, I mean we know because we could tell, you know, whenever where interview goes grave, more often than not, you know it. When it's not going great, you feel it, you may not know exactly. The other thing just to answer, because it was a very specific question, and it kind of dovetails into personalized thank units.

I can't tell you the number of times I would have candidates who really were impressive, but for one reason or another, they just didn't show well that day. They just weren't on their game, you know, as we might say. Or they just weren't exactly the right fit, right? And they would write me, just drop me an email, send me a text, write something that just says, hey, I get it. I understand there were other people from my own development, from my own search. Is there anything you could pass on to me? And who doesn't want to help in that scenario? So nine times out of 10, I would either pick up the phone and call the person and go, hey, I don't have a ton, but here's what I did here.

Or here's what I heard. It wasn't a lot, but here's how I interpret that. how do you interpret that? And together, you know, me and the candidate would kind of figure out like, okay, what does that mean? So I highly encourage the other thing about personalized notes. Recruiters right now, they are just flooded. You know, they're flooded. And we haven't touched on this yet, but I'm sure we're about to, which is this is such an unusual time that a lot of people are asking me, like, should I pause my search? Like, should I hold off, right? And I'm full stop, no you should not, right?

Now is the time to be full steam ahead because the market is gonna bounce back. And certainly when it does, you wanna be kind of top of mind for people. But in those scenarios, you know, when people would write me a personal note or drop me a personal mind, and it doesn't have to be handwritten, just something that tells me like, wow, they really listened, they really heard the pain point that my company's going through. They created, you know, a brand for themselves in my mind, right? differentiated themselves from the 10 other people that I might have talked to that day. So I really can't encourage that enough.

You know, and one thing personal experience I speak from here, there was a job I wanted years ago so badly. I went through the final rounds of interviews and I didn't get it. And I just I thought I would be perfect for the role. I thought the role was perfect for me. I thought the company was great and I was so disappointed. And I pushed for that feedback and I got something back that was so trivial and to me it was a reflection of them and it made me realize like yeah I really wanted this job but it made me realize like you know what I don't think I would have been successful working for someone who give that type of feedback it was rough.

And it was so little, right, that you're like, well, all right, you know, look, if it made it easier for me the negative feedback, right, which is hard to hear, it made it easier for me to detach from wanting that job or feeling less than. So I don't know if you guys have had that experience, but from a candidate perspective, you know, yeah, we learned from that feedback. And if you got to take it and run with it for sure. But sometimes getting bad feedback is sometimes a reflection of someone else. And it makes you learn like, you know what? Dodgeable out there. So. For sure.

Yeah, I think, I know this specific panel is targeted more towards a job seeker, but they're any hiring manager on this call. Be careful with your feedback. I think right now, while there are a lot of candidates, I'm starting to see clients. So we went from a candidate recession with what I call this, there's no pants on the market, the can'ts have the upper hands like all the canks. And so the clients think are picking up on that and will be, I think, exerting their power a little bit. And so I will, I would be cautious for any hiring managers on here to be very diligent with your feedback because I am currently working with a client right now whose feedback is very nitpicky and vague to the point where the people who I am working with are getting a little turned off because of that.

So just know that the feedback you're giving, if it's not true, because the recruiters for the most part are asking the questions of what was talked about in the interview. And if you're saying that you're rejecting the candidate based off certain topics that you spoke about in the interview, but the can't's telling me that y'all never talked about it, That's not a good look, so be cautious on that. That's great advice. In fact, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you said that, because I hadn't thought about the fact that you might have a lot of hard news on this call. Hey, Steve, if you could put up, I think there might be a couple more bullets.

I want to come back to Kate's. Yeah, number seven, what Kate was referring to a little bit, right? And I'm so glad you brought that up, which is, like, just because this is a really unique time and I know it's the easiest time to really lose hope and confidence and right start to lose yourself and when you've been at it I have a client right now who's been searching for a while. You know she's kept her full time job the whole time but she's trying to make a pivot into another discipline and so she just keeps getting rejected because she doesn't have that specific experience right and what we're working on is the fact that she's kind of lost her confidence a little bit as a result of that.

And she's starting to downplay her own expertise to fit in, right, what they're looking for. And I love what you said, Kate, that like sometimes, you know, reading between the lines or hearing the feedback can cause you to go, wait, I might not want to work at this company after all. Maybe I thought I did, but now I've just learned something, which is truly a great nugget in terms of what this person values or the culture of the company. And that is huge, right? And so don't sell yourself short. And at some point, I'm sure we're going to talk about maybe the wrap up, what's the number one piece of advice we would give people as they go out.

Certainly one of those is to just really know yourself and what's going to make you happy and not to settle. You may have to settle short term, right? If your priority is that paycheck like we talked about, but always coming back to life. At the end of the day, life's too short to be in a role where you don't feel valued and appreciated. and so kind of stick into your personal values. I'll close this out with just number six. Taylor and I are both big fans of, I think online search is the way the world works. Right now I will say when I started in recruiting so many years ago, there was no LinkedIn really dating myself, but now everything is online and certainly that's the way to go.

but the number of times that we would hire a referral, especially if you find yourself, if you're at a point in your career where you're trying to pivot or you're trying to move into an area that you haven't worked in before, like networking is the key to your search, right? And so finding someone that works in that company right now that would advocate for you is gonna be so much more valuable than any posting and applying, they still need to do those things, right? But working your network is the number one thing I would say for anybody that's looking to transition into maybe a different discipline.

Such good advice. I know we've got some more questions here from before and from the panel, but I wanted to turn it over to Steve just to make sure we got it in before the end of the hour. some of the resources that NTC is putting together for all of us on the call to find jobs. Yeah, the Technology Council on May 12th from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. hosting a virtual job fair for anyone that's interested in this. So the place to be able to go on to the job fair three dimensional booths on the screen to visit, get information about companies that are hiring that are hiring their recruiters will actually be their live chat with you.

for the positions they're listed and some of them may even want to do video chats with you. All that is there for anybody that wants to participate. Go to technologycounsel.com slash job fair. To sign up you have to register on the site and upload your resume. It'll send you an email and then on the day of the event you can log back in at 10 a.m. Central or anytime between 10 and 3. You don't have to be there immediately and you're not to stay all day just anytime you can come and go. So we want to get that out and we'll show this slide up again in a few minutes for the answer if I can get the information.

Great and one more plug. We've got a Slack channel going for this group in particular where we're posting any new jobs that are coming available. So if you haven't gotten into that Slack group yet, we'll make sure we follow up after this webinar with an email to make sure you can get in if that's of interest. So very excited to have the whole crew here. I'm going to kind of run through some of these questions because I want to make sure we have time for them. So real quick from the group here, someone's heard that crafting your resume to the job you're applying for might be a good thing to do.

What is the right balance of actually changing your resume to apply for a job versus using the same thing every time. I think it's absolutely necessary. Your resume should be a living, breathing document. But I also think, too, you need to have a specialty. I was dealing with one individual the other day, and literally this individual sent me 13 different versions of his resume for 13 different types of jobs with an IT. And I said, love this. this is great that you spent time to do this, but I need like two. Like what are your top one to two positions? Right? And so I think that's my thing.

I think your resume should evolve with the job posting, but also like don't go over the top. Right? Like if you're a software developer and you are currently doing .NET with no Angular, and then your resume is littered with kind of vague angular bullet points and just know that you're going to get grilled on that. Right? So I think staying in your lane is incredibly important but also crafting your resume per job posted. Okay, that's great. That's great advice. Another question here from the group, do you have any recommendations or templates we can use on LinkedIn to contact people we don't know at companies who are interviewing and or to target companies that they're looking to work for.

Just be yourself. That's all I got. No templates. I think right now, and I'm telling this to my recruiting team, right now is not the time to have templates, right? Everybody, like the more one to what I call hand-to-hand combat, the more one-on-one intentional conversations you can have via Twitter, LinkedIn. I say Twitter because it's a huge software community tool like the Tonnesaufer developers are on it. The more you can go like, hey listen, I don't know who to contact, be vulnerable. I think that's going to separate yourself. Paige? Yeah, I agree. I was going to say, templates not, no, not necessarily. I do have some guidance though.

And one is what Taylor just said, which is try to find a way to show up as your unique self, right? But also just being like I had somebody, I'll give you some examples of I've had a ton of people reach out to me just in the last month or so and one wrote specifically, you know, I know this is direct. He actually wrote Willington Network slash Roll Time because he had seen that I graduated from Alabama which I mean it caught my mind, I caught my attention and I opened it up so it worked. He said you know I know this is gold but I've just been laid off.

do you know of any and he got really specific. Here's what I'm looking for, right? And so I was thinking about Taylor's earlier comment and it also leads back to that bullet about don't try to be everything to everybody. If you don't know what you want, that's going to easily come across when you're talking to people and you're networking. And so before you get out there doing those two networking calls every single week. Be sure you can articulate what you want in a way that the person can easily understand it and can think about, well, how can I help you? Because the goal of networking, in terms of guidance, I also tell people a lot of clients I work with are super intimidated by that or they just feel like they're asking for something and they don't want to do that.

And the advice I give is, don't approach it that way at all. Reach out to someone and say, hey, I've been laid off or I've been furloughed or I've in transition and I'm just, you know, networking for my next opportunity. I just love to hear your advice, I'd love to pick your brain, right? And then be thinking the whole time you're talking to them, make it about them. Like what is it that I hear them talking about when they tell their story that I could offer and help them, you know? And so really make it about how you can go out and put that out into the world and that's going to come back to you.

I think that's great advice. advice from a candidate's perspective to understand the recruiting process. So I think a lot of us could relate to, I've been through the process, I'm late, I'm in late stage with company A, but company B, which is a company I'd really like to work for, just reached out to me. How can I understand the, what the recruiting processes for Company B so that I don't have to give Company A an answer before I know if Company B is gonna offer me the job like you know how to basically how do I understand the timeline of the recruiting process better and what questions do I ask to be able to get that information I need to understand you know when I have to make a decision.

Do we have another hour? So I mean, yeah, this is a lot. So first off, if we can go back to my slide with the top 10 questions to stuff for recruiter, I would say like that's a good place to start right there. That's a really good place to start. You know, on the specific job and how fast it can move. I would say if a recruiter can answer all 10 of those and then they should at least get close to 10, the job can move pretty quick. I think in a nutshell, it's asking to recruit the process, right? I'm not going to go in because we don't have the time to go into the nuts and bolts of my process.

And I'd honestly page maybe something we can do in the future. I'd love to hear the process from a corporate side too, because I have no idea. And I'd be interested to see kind of the differences and, you know, similarities between both. But I think asking the recruiter front, hey, realistically, how fast do you think this could move? I mean, I mean, people ask me all the time. I'm like I'm going to be honest with you. HR is slow. High wages are slow. It's probably gonna take three weeks or honestly like I just got a guy and offer after a 30-minute phone call last week.

So it's it varies. Yeah I was just gonna say it so depends a lot of it depends too on the size of the company right so smaller companies just as a rule they're likely to move faster at larger companies where there's a lot more people and stakeholders and a lot more of buy-in. That's just gonna take longer. The other thing I would say is ask, right? All the time we would have candidates. Just you know you want to be thoughtful about when you share certain information but you also want to be honest, right? Because there's nothing worse than a candidate who did not tell me where they were in the process with someone else.

You know that is something that you don't want to happen either because you're creating a brand for yourself in every interaction. So you do have to be smart about it but you want to be honest and so I often had candidates say well here's the situation like I'm on round three with so-and-so company and we would decide together right like I could we could get started and I'll tell the hiring manager where you are with this other company recognizing that it's something might pop on either side right yeah I would say is as you're in it, if it starts to get extended, ask again, there's definitely be your own advocate.

I think that's great advice. Couple more questions here from the crew. Do you have any tips specifically for junior developers looking for their first role? I've heard most recruiters do not have positions for junior devs, so what is the best alternative? This is great. First off, if you, anybody who wants to text me as a junior developer, I've actually started a junior developer newsletter and a junior developer text messaging group. So feel free to text me or email me at my phone number 615-525-4806. Again, that's 615. There it is on the slide. So all that being said, you're right. I mean, I would say navigating the job search in general is hard for a junior developer.

And now as well, but I'm gonna be honest, I thought about this because I knew this question probably come up, I would say it's just as hard than as it is now for junior developers. I don't think that's changed because there's still, there's just so, there's so many individuals and so many, you know, you have National Software Schools doing a great job now, you have Vanderbilt getting in on the bootcamp game and so it's just, you have all these candidates and that hasn't changed and to be quite frank with you, I've seen as many jobs as before from a junior developer side, But I think now a demo project is not enough, right?

Like the NSS, they do demo days. I don't think that's enough anymore. I think that's incredible and that puts you in line with everybody else. But if you want to separate yourself, I would start asking for free work. And I know free work is kind of a thing. I tweeted about that a few months ago and it went viral for me. So like three interactions. But a lot of people don't like the idea of taking on free work. but I would say right now, if I were to look at a resume of a junior developer who just has coach school experience versus coach school experience, and they've taken on three personal projects, one for a church, one for their best friends gardening club, and one for their best friends, anime club developing a website for them, like I'm gonna call the person with the three personal projects.

And so I would go ahead. I was gonna say that's great advice. personal experience here at Teaming, we have turned down free work even. Like we just, our senior developers just don't have the time to work with some of the junior developers that we have heard about or have approached us. That being said, we just took on someone because of networking. One of our senior devs got to know one of the junior devs looking for a job. And here we are. We turn the table. So same thing, like free work and networking, man. I was shocked to see our head of development take on someone after being vehemently against it.

People fall in love with people. That's it. That's it. We're asking. I love that. It's so true. We hire people we like as much as, you know. We got two more questions here. So we'll keep taking them as we get up to the hour here. How soon after applying for a job should you follow up? Is there such a thing as the wrong way to follow up? Paige, you wanna go first? Yeah, I think I can have a show. I'm very, like, that's such a sticky one. There's always a wrong way, right? I mean, and we know that about everything in life. But, you know, after applying a week or so, I think makes a lot of sense.

I mean, recognizing, you know, people are busy. You know, I guarantee you recruiters are not sitting there ignoring their wrecks. I promise you they're not. There tends to be a lot of other things. So if I think about the recruiting teams I led, none of those recruiters were just recruiters. They all had other jobs in addition to their recruiting job, whether they were leading projects, whether they were training hiring managers on interviewing skills, whether they were building out infrastructure, I mean, whatever, right? They were all doing things in addition to a regular as we called it. So I guarantee you they're not sitting there ignoring, but follow up is critical and sometimes they can't get overwhelmed and they can't have too much on their plate.

So follow up is good. In terms of the wrong way, I don't know that I would answer this just for that specific instance because it can apply to a number of things, but one of the things we talked about often was despite the best efforts, I would so many times get on the phone with a candidate or we would have a whole day planned, you know, a panel, eight or nine interviews throughout a day. And at the end of the day, the candidate, I would, you know, be debriefing with them or walk out with them. And they would start criticizing either one of my recruiters or a hiring manager, you know, and just really be negative about the process.

And I mean, I get it, you guys. I can't tell you the number of times that I have even had that feeling of like, Oh my gosh, this candidate has been sitting out in the lobby for, you know, where is the coordinator? Right? So I'm not saying it doesn't happen. What I would say is try to put yourself, you know, in the shoes of the person receiving that and think about, you know, do you really want to tick off the person that you expect to advocate for you? Right? And you don't. Right? And so I guess to answer this specific question, is there a wrong way?

Try to just check that stuff in such an emotional process. you know, that I know it's hard, but where you can have a plan to get out of the building, get home and call a friend event about it, right? Or before going in, just get all that off your chest and, you know, out of your head so that you don't step on your own foot, I guess. So negativity and criticism is not gonna get you far in the process. And I think it follows too, right? If you have appreciation for recruiters, right? I've never been placed by an external recruiter, but there are, I could name you five that check in with me every so often.

And man, I think it's because, I mean, I think anyway, I appreciate the work they've done to try to place me so much. It's hard, right? And I think if you appreciate that, right, they wanna work with you and they wanna advocate for you, maybe not for this role, but for another role in the future. So. One of the things is to always say, and Taylor, you'll probably have your own, but like, you know, a recruiter is only as good as their last placement. And so, you know, Kate, you're exactly right. Like, we want to make people look good, right? And recruiters want to have candidates look phenomenal, because it only reflects on the job that they've done.

So, where we can build partnership, that's been the biggest key to success. One more question. This is a little bit of a long one, but given the current environment and your points of job seekers being at a disadvantage in terms of opportunities right now, right, it's definitely a hiring managers market. What do you see as a future, what do you see as a future looking like when the economy starts to grow and unemployment starts to decline, will we see a mass migration of workers leaving jobs that they took out a necessity? Hey, you first again. I love when you do that. It's such a great question.

I don't know if we'll see a mask because the people I've been talking to and the questions and calls I've been getting, a lot of folks are, not immediately, when they got the notice of their job being eliminated or their furlough. But a few weeks later, they're in a place of like, okay, maybe this is an opportunity in my life where I can step back and take a little bit of a pivot or a breather and be planful about my approach. And so I'm not hearing from a lot of people right now that they are grasping at the first thing. Certainly there are some, but I'm not hearing a lot of that.

So I don't know that we're gonna see a mass. What I do think we will see is just like we talked earlier about flooding. And so there's gonna be so many more candidates for each role. And we're gonna see some new roles. this whole work from home, we've just proven it out, right? If you didn't work for a company before that did, now every company has. And so I think we're starting to see the beginnings of some really interesting, you know, what does work look like. And so there are gonna be some new roles that I think will come and people will have opportunity in new areas.

I think that's a great answer. We're right at the top of the hour, Steve. Anything we're missing here, do you wanna close us out? Yeah, you guys have done a great job. to thank Kate Page and Taylor for participating in the panel and controlling this. And as we close it out, if any help contact them, they're willing to talk to you the contact information has been on the screen several times. And also for anybody that's interested, participate in the May 12th job fair, again, register at technologycouncil.com slash job fair, register there, also look at technology.com, our calendar for any other events that are coming up.

But We'd love to see you at the job fair. Thank you everybody and have a good day. Good luck on your job search. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, team. Bye, y'all. Absolutely. Thanks, y'all.