self reflection and consulting w/ jeff ramsey

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Hello, hello. Thanks for listening to Guidance Counselor 2.0. Listen, I want to give you a quick rundown of what this podcast is and what you're about to get into as you listen to these episodes. We had Guidance Counselors in middle school. We had Guidance Counselors in high school, but we didn't really have Guidance Counselors in college and now as professionals, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask a quick question to learn something about the job search or to navigate your career. And so that is what I want this podcast to be for you. I want it to be a tool for you to navigate the job search and your career.

So that being said, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you need to reach me, Taylor at vaco.com is how to get in touch with me old fashioned email social media at tdesint D E S S E Y N. And finally, please rate and review this in the app store because I want this to be discoverable for others so they can navigate their careers. Hope you enjoy the episode. Jeff, give the people what they want. Who are you? What are you doing? We'll dive in. Well, first off, I just wanted to say congratulations to Taylor. This thing has really exploded and just always been proud to see his effort and how he brings it every day, really focus on the culture with him and his team.

And it's just, it's been a real pleasure to watch Taylor grow throughout his career. And I'm excited to finally get a chance to be on with everyone today. So thank you for having me. I appreciate that. So my name is Jeff Ramsey. I'm based here in Nashville, Tennessee. Been with, it's hard to believe this, but I've been with the VACO for 16 years now. So I started when I was 10, I know another body can tell, but I was a senior manager in public accounting, but before I made the leap over to VACO, never done this business before, but it was the best decision I ever made.

And some of the things I didn't even think about that I would enjoy helping people get a chance to work with clients and consultants and candidates and see them succeed in achieve levels that they didn't even think that they could could make it to, that's been probably one of the most rewarding things. And then also seeing my colleagues go great places, like Taylor here and a number of other folks at Vaco, hit record levels and become leaders all over the country. the country. So that's been exciting. But I've been here for 16 years. I lead our accounting and finance consulting practice nationally. So we have 45 offices across the country.

It's from international locations as well. But I've done that. And then a couple of years ago, we bought a consulting firm called Morgan Franklin Consulting. And that's Vaco's global consulting platform and I've helped lead the integration of that for the last couple years. So staying busy, but it's exciting and I'm excited to be on here. So I'm excited to get a chance to talk a little bit about what we're seeing in the market and opportunities for folks that is during unprecedented times. Yep, yep, absolutely. I want to give a few more shout-outs. People, LinkedIn, you sure don't know who you are but good morning. goes my LinkedIn didn't show you were live interesting see got LinkedIn come on now Janine it's great to see you oosman what's going on Pia from Vegas always consistent Alicia goes late joining this morning we're struggling to figure out how to post an infographic to LinkedIn spoiler doesn't work well as I like I'm sorry Alicia you should call IT support all right so let's dive into the topic today so Jeff and I were chatting you know off air and Jeff has such a holistic view of the market with being accounting and finance and working on it nationally.

And he actually really dove into a topic that I wanted to address. And I think a lot of people are interested but no one wants to talk about it, which is consulting. But before we dive into that, I want to talk about self-reflection. So Jeff brought this up about how he's seeing people do self-reflecting that we can kind of tie that into consulting. So Jeff, what do you see right now? Also, maybe what's some advice to people right now or at the end of the year who are tired, who maybe want a career change? Like talk about maybe some self-reflection your thoughts on that. Yeah, I would love to.

You know, the interesting thing and everyone's aware of this has been an unprecedented amount of opportunities in the market full-time consulting. And really what it is is individuals using whether it be COVID or I think that started, but it's really the snowball effect where so many people are evaluating what do they want to do? What do they really want to do what was what would really make them happy whether it's doing what they're doing now and want to achieve new goals, new levels, maybe it's to change industries, maybe it's to move to a different place and so all those things all those things are contributing to the opportunities that are out there people are leaving they're not afraid anymore to leave their full-time jobs like they were in the past.

And I think that's, go ahead, sorry. What's kind of a, you know, so let's talk about, we can get into consulting with it. So like, what would you say to people right now who are like, I'm so tired of what I'm doing? What are some things I need to be mindful of getting in, and we can kind of get into the consulting side, but like what should people be mindful of who've spent their years as a full-time individual and maybe want to get into consulting? What are some things that they should consider? Well, I think the first thing is, you need to really think through long term, what would make you happy?

What are some of the key attributes at a company that you would be looking for if you made a change? Okay. And the really hard thing is, you go out and let's say that you finally decide that you're willing, you're ready to leave or you're ready to look for a new opportunity. You go and interview, that company puts their best foot forward. you put your best foot forward. But all you can really grade them on is what you see in the interview or what you've heard or read online. You don't have the opportunity to see it day in and day out, see how they treat people, see how, if they back up what they say they do.

Yeah. And so that's, and so the, what's been interesting is we're seeing more and more folks decide to dip their toe into the consulting world or at least try it. I don't know what I want to do long term, but in the meantime, let me go and just see what some different cultures are around town. Maybe it's companies you've always wanted to work at, or think you might want to work at. And so consulting is a great way to evaluate companies' culture, the job that you're doing. And then one of the things that I think keeps folks wanting to do more and more consulting projects happens to be where they go in somewhere, somewhere they're appreciated for the skill set that they bring.

And they can do a project and then guess what, that project's over. They can go somewhere else and do it again. And you can keep doing that until you find that culture that really fits you. You like them, they really like you. You can jump off the, off the train at any point, uh, from, from a full time perspective, but really that is that variety. And so it's the perfect comment. What's, what, what the feedback that we're getting is it's the perfect combination of, of exploring new opportunities in places you want to go to. But yet having some stability of ongoing work, because there's so much, it's an unprecedented amount of opportunities to do.

Yeah. Um, also to John, just go side note AWS diets. That's probably why LinkedIn is best enough. Um, so, uh, so, so Jeff, let's break it down a little bit more, get a little granular here. So the people who are watching this, like, you know what consulting sounds great. Like that sounds great. Like how do I start consulting? Right, so I mean, like recruiting company, consulting firm, freelance, all those are very different. Well, maybe not the recruiting firm consulting company, but like how would you break all that down? Right, should somebody go out on the run? Should someone partner with a recruiting company? Like, let's get a little tactical there.

Sure, great point, great question. And we get that a lot too. The great thing about working with a firm, a consulting firm, and whether they do, you know, if it's a big four type firm, you know, the good and bad is, they usually work on some really good projects. The bad is you're sort of locked in to wherever they tell you to go. If you're more of a freelance or you work with a company more like a VACO, you still get a chance to say yes or no and can still control your destiny, your projects. but still be able to provide that. So I love the Vaco model and there's other firms out other than just Vaco.

I love the Vaco model where we're trying to find, we're trying to find, continue to find consultants and folks who want to try consulting, but yet still want to be in control of where they go, the types of projects. So we bring these opportunities to someone. They get to evaluate it. That is that we think, you know, we're not going to call them if you don't think it meets their skill set. Sure. But they still have the opportunity to say, you know what? I'm not sure that that's the right fit for me. And so you can still say no. So you're still in control. So then you're saying that let's say an individual who's been in a full time job for two to three years that wants to dip their kind of toe in consulting.

Is there an opportunity for them to do it like maybe part time? Like is that something that is an option or like, like is there opportunity that you've seen like some off hours work at all? Typically that's more on from an IT perspective, especially if you have that niche skill set. You can certainly, there are opportunities to moonlight if you will outside of regular hours. Yes, yeah. There are some on the county finance side, probably not as regular, because the reality is most clients need somebody They have an immediate either a strategic project, or a need, one of someone's left, and they need somebody for a period of time.

So they typically need longer than that. But that's not always the case. There are times where we might be struggling to find somebody who can do part-time work. So there has never been a better time no matter what your situation is, no matter what your desire for dipping your toe in the water, as you described it. You can do it now. Yeah. There is opportunities. And so you may, you may, it may be fewer and far between, or maybe you may be picky on the types of projects, but you can certainly do all that now. And I feel like too, and I talk about this a lot.

And so Jeff, I want to hear your thoughts that somebody's been in the industry for a long time, is I feel like you should start your job search, or I think you should actually really lean on recruiters and consulting companies to learn the market. So for example, if a candidate were to come to me and be like, all right, I want to dip my toe in consulting, contracting with Vaco. It's like, okay, great, let's talk about it. Are benefits important to you? Well, they are. Okay, well, we have them here at cost. I want to break that down too with benefits. Because I think that's the biggest thing too, is the benefit thing, and we'll talk about it in a second.

But for me, it's one of these things where I think recruiting, you should lean into recruiters. because I think what happens is, is people who start the job search just like immediately go to the job boards, immediately go to LinkedIn, and then get overwhelmed, because they don't know what's going on in the market. And I think people need to shift their focus and be like, all right, listen, I'm gonna actually, I'm gonna have a tunnel vision right now. And I'm not gonna look at the easy apply, I'm not gonna let the job openings, I'm actually just gonna go to Vaco, and I'm just gonna talk to Taylor at Vaco about the lay of the land.

What are your thoughts on that, just from approaching the job search and getting into consulting from that perspective? I'm so glad you're asking that because that is absolutely true. You know, the folks at Vaco and other firms like us, their job is to know everybody in town. Everybody. Every culture in town. Jeff knows everybody, literally everybody. We can find individuals that have the skill set that a client needs. So as we're getting to know hiring managers companies in their cultures, the 50% of this job for our sales people and our recruiters is finding folks that have the skill set. We're pretty good at that. The art to this job and the thing that Canada should lean into a company like Avaco is the art to it is finding folks that match the culture.

So instead of you the candidate out, trying to navigate the waters into the black hole of HR, lean into a company like Vaco who can match your personality with different companies' cultures and help you, it fast-tracks you to companies that is a better fit for you and for the client and it essentially makes everybody happier. Yep, yep, 100%. So, So another thing I want to talk about to Jeff and I want to pivot the conversation a little bit Well, not really about benefits. I have another question, but I'm getting ahead of myself I want to come back to benefit. So the biggest thing I get all the time is I don't you know contract contract to hire consulting Can we talk about that real quick too?

Because again we you and I throw around these terms because it's like we we know this right right to hire contract to hire consulting, right? That's like a thing Can we break down some of these terms for people who are watching right now like what's there's been contracting and consulting and you You may say something that I don't even know. So I'm curious to kind of how you would differentiate the two. Well, folks will use contract in consulting interchangeably. And to some degree, that's true. But in a lot of cases, a contract piece would be where a company has a need for somebody, let's say, on a three-month period.

Let's say on the county side, the controller is left. they want somebody in there for three months to do the job. Maybe they have a strategic project going on and they need a specific skill set for a period of time. Contract. Consulting might be, hey, we were wanting to do this, but we don't have the internal skill set to design what that should look like, gather requirements, manage through the implementation and to really make sure that that system will do what we want it to do when the dust settles. So I look at those slightly different consulting and contracting is a little bit more. There's some things in place from the organizational perspective and you're just kind of coming in supporting consulting is like soup to nuts, top to bottom, whatever saying you want to use more methodology driven.

You're helping bring that methodology along with that expertise. to design and implement that, whatever that strategic issue is. Contracting and consulting, and I'm curious, because I've been pitching it this way. So I'm glad you're on the, I'm glad you're alive so you can correct me if I've been pitching it wrong. What I say with VACO is, hey, come consult with us. You get a variety of projects. We're not like an Accenture Deloitte. From a sales side, you don't have to sign us up for like a 10 year agreement or something like that, right? It's like one project get out. I don't know if that's changed.

But also too, companies are allowed to convert our people, unlike in Accenture Deloitte. Obviously there's a higher fee involved because that IP's going out the door from RN. Is that accurate? Like if companies that are watching this, now are in the future, because Jeff, your face is gonna get cut up and put on content across the internet now. So congrats. Is that correct? Like if companies are like, man, I love this vibe between Jeff and Taylor. I maybe wanna use Vaycon Morgan engagement. But I maybe wanna hire a person or two. Is that possible? Absolutely. Every one of our agreements, everyone. I've been pitching it correctly.

Yeah. Every one of them, they have the opportunity to convert somebody to a full-time basis. Now, obviously, it's got to be a good fit for both sides. 100%. Consulting gets a chance to understand what the salary and the benefits and that whole package looks like just like you would for a full-time. And we can help negotiate that. But from a client's perspective, absolutely. Yes, there's typically a fee associated with that. Right. But there is an opportunity. And while the, a lot of clients want to, they want to try before you buy, the great thing about consulting for both parties, especially if you're wanting to see a culture in the company wants to get a chance to meet you and see your skillset and how you fit in, we're dating at that point.

Yeah. And so we can, we both have decided to get married if we want to convert over to a full-time basis. But there's an opportunity for both sides. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. I joke all the time. I need to like, I need to have like a series of dating and the job search. And I need to break down parts of the interviewing process and the hiring process for the dating, because it's the same thing. And again, I mean, this is huge. And I want to talk about this too, because this is one of the points you brought up before we went live, is really contracting consulting is a way for you to get in the door, maybe at companies that you wouldn't have been able to.

So can you talk about that a little bit? Perfect guy, and I'm sorry, I was like, kind of went all over the board earlier, but no. I hate scripted, I love all over the board. So we're doing great. To me, this is one of the, you know, when you're doing this self-refill, when someone is sitting down, you sit at the end of the year and they're thinking through what they wanna do when they grow up, what do they wanna be, where do they wanna work? A lot of times we sort of end up in an industry, But we always have wonder what it's like at another answer.

Or we always wanted to try that out. But some industries are harder to get into other. Like in Nashville, healthcare is huge here. So if you're in manufacturing, it's really hard you're like, oh, that's impossible to get over. I don't understand payer system and it's complicated. Me neither. Well, consulting has been the ideal world to get to try new things. And if you want to get to healthcare, Well, Vaco or someone like us can help you get a contract opportunity at a, let's say, a healthcare services company. So it's not squarely in healthcare, but it's on the fringes, supports healthcare. Yeah. Gives you a chance to come in and utilize your skillset, learn that healthcare piece and use it as a stepping stone to get to where you want to go into that industry happens all the time.

And it's been one of the most pleasant surprises about consulting. And honestly, keeps people coming back, they're excited. And so maybe they get over to one industry and they're like, that they always want to try and like, no, this is not for me. I want to go do something else. We'll help them get over to that industry. It's really a benefit that doesn't get talked about a lot, but it's huge, especially as you're trying to figure out what do you know, like we all are, what do you want to do when you grow up? Well, and I had, I mean, to this case, and I don't know if he's watching the show, I'll just give him a shout out Julian.

Julian just got started at Facebook, meta, meta. I don't know if it's a contract, I forgot. He was interviewing at Microsoft and meta. And I don't know which one's contract to hire, but he ended up at meta. That's weird to say. And he's loving it and he wouldn't have been able to get into it. So Julian, if you wash his down in the future, please correct me. I don't know if you're currently on contract hire or direct hire, but all that being said, Like I know Google does a lot of recruiting in the recruiting space and higher sources is contract to hire, right? It's a way for you to get them in the door.

A lot of companies do that just to get by the paperwork and the onboarding process. So it really is a great way to get embedded into an organization. And listen, Jeff, talk about this. How many times do we place a candidate and six months later, their manager gets fired, the company loses funding and going under. Talk to me about what you've seen your career about like people who just want direct hire and then start and then they're like this is terrible Well We've seen we've seen all that I mean so much My favorite example I won't name the company in town, but we had somebody come in as a as a controller level person Person after person started leaving some people in here might be able to guess some some might have some a short list of what this company might be, but people are leaving leaving this person continually stepped up.

Next thing you know, they started a controller 18 months later, they're the CFO of this company. You're kidding. And so by a series of that, but have a comment and demonstrated that they can handle those next steps. So to your point, it's crazy to see that, that can see that happening, but you can absolutely get in and there's opportunities to advance and try to take trying to things. Talk to me as you question or not. No, it does, it does. So I wanna talk too. So this is the biggest kickback. And again, if you all have any questions that are watching right now, as long as we're still live in AWS and like turn us off, actually, Jeff, I'm streaming to Instagram and it cut me off because I guess AWS is down.

So I can't stream to Instagram anymore. So, if for those of you who are watching and you always wanna get in contracting or consulting or any of the like, please ask questions. Now's the time Jeff is a wealth of knowledge. If you have questions, please ask. But Jeff, I wanna talk about benefits, right? Cause that's the biggest thing, right? I need benefits, I need benefits. At the end of the day, like we offer benefits to our contractors, to our consultants. Can you talk about benefits? Sure. Maybe how to get creative. Maybe how to price, I don't know, like just general thoughts around benefits with contractors and consultants.

A lot of people think that, well, I'm going to come in, I'm going to be 10, 9, 9, I'm going to be responsible for all that stuff. And not 40 hours, right? That's another thing I get out of there. Like is it 40 hours? It's like it is. So keep going. Well, sometimes it's more than that. So we have to manage expectations. Your expectations as the candidate, client expectations, if it's going to be more, you know, a lot of these are 40 hour a week jobs. Most clients want somebody there for that full time. That could be remote, but they want somebody for 40 hours a week typically, but benefits.

A lot of people think, oh my gosh, I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna be 1099. I'm not gonna have any benefits, whether that's overwhelming. I've gotta have, maybe I have some health care issues, some health issues, I need to have benefits. We provide benefits. Yes. We provide opportunities for 401K. You are a W-2 employee of AECO. Yes. And we have different programs based on skill set and level and whatnot, but there absolutely is opportunity to have benefits. And if the benefits, if our benefits are right for you, we'll help you find benefits that are. So you're not on an island. We're in this with our clients and with our candidates.

We're in this for the length of their career in ours. We're building relationships long beyond a single project, two projects with the client. We wanna build a, we wanna build, we wanna build a first call, long-term relationship, consultant, the same thing. And so that's important to us. So we wanna make sure you're happy. If you're not happy, you're not gonna do a good job on a consulting project. Agreed. And so that is paramount to us. Well, and I wanna echo what Jeff said too. And listen, you're probably like, man, this sounds too good to be true. Listen, Veko, I mean, that's why we've grown. I mean, I would say we're kind of a unicorn in the market, right?

I mean, we're, because there's guys like Jeff, because there's guys like, you know, or there's ladies like Jessica who I interviewed yesterday, if you guys tuned to that one, That was a fantastic episode. But again, you have to find a consulting or contracting or recruiting company that matches your vibe. People joke with me, a vibe. It's all about a vibe. It's all a fit. Listen, part of the reason why I want to bring Vaco people on is because it's like, listen, we got a good vibe. And if you want to work with us, that's important. But here's the deal. Not every firm is going to be like us.

And so you have to ask the questions, and you gotta make sure they're invested in it. So I don't know if you have any more thoughts on that. Absolutely. You want somebody that's asking the question, what are your long-term goals? What makes you happy? What do you not like about where you're at now? If you could name the top three things, the top three attributes of a new company, what would those be? People should be asking you, what do you wanna do long-term? And if they're not, maybe they're not the right fit for you. Exactly. And that's okay. Because you know what? There's a lot of us out there.

There's a lot of us out there. You can find it. So Jeff, as you wrap up here, I always give guests. I'm really just the last, last moment to share some some thoughts on what's ever on top of their mind. So this doesn't have to be about consulting. I didn't know if you have any thoughts about to job seekers right now to hiring managers going into 2022. If you want to leave maybe with some words of encouragement, and then we can wrap it up here. Absolutely, well, from a hiring perspective, I just would encourage, and most clients have gotten on board understanding that the times have changed, but I would really be leaning into firms like Vaco and whoever your go to help is and ask them.

They're seeing, their job is to know everybody in the market. They can tell you what best practices are going on and how you can stay competitive with candidates and get candidates be interested in your environment. You may have a great name, but everyone's talking and they know what those, the great part about every company. And so a company like Veko can share those with you and they can share what other folks are doing. They can also, as they're talking to consultants, you're telling them, hey, who's got kind of the best things going on? So I think that leaning in there, if you're a candidate and you're thinking about, there's no obligation to come talk to Vaco.

Now, if you're willing to explore consulting or what opportunities might be out there, what that might look like, what's it hurt to talk or go meet for lunch or a cup of coffee? Yeah. So I would just encourage both on the consulting side and on the hiring side, make 2022 your year to be courageous, try new things, pilot some new things, See what works. And don't be afraid to fail or try new things. I think you'll be shocked at your success by doing so and I think you'll be a happier person for doing it. I love that. Well, Jeff, thanks for hanging, man. I appreciate it.

Stay on, don't log off so we can chitch head afterwards. Y'all, thank you again for hanging out with us this morning. Hopefully you learned something. This is a really important topic. I think a lot of people are scared about consulting, contracting, you name it, because they're uneducated. And I really feel like, listen, if you have any more questions, reach out to Jeff. Jeff, what's your email so people can reach out to if they have questions? It's J Ramsey R-A-M-S-C-Y-M-Vaco.com. And I'd be happy to talk to you, happy to share information or get you in touch with the person around here that can help. But I appreciate the opportunity to be on.

Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. Y'all have a good one. Tomorrow morning, 9.30 a.m. Central. I'm going live with a community manager, Haley from Nashville Software School. So I volunteer a lot of my time, actually spoke last night to a cohort. They're doing amazing things. We're going to talk about junior developers building coordinates of an annual importance of bootcamp with the organization. So you won't want to miss it. So I'll see you all tomorrow morning. Jeff, thank you again, my friend. I appreciate you. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. Have a good day. Hey, you did it. You listened to an entire episode and I am very grateful because you know why?

There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of episodes and I myself rarely finish an entire episode. So I appreciate you so, so much for listening. Quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the App Store. I want this to be discoverable to others. And the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it, please, like right now. Unless you're driving, then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me, tailor at vaco.com or at Tdaston on all social media handles. And I hope you have a fantastic day.