navigating layoffs, side hustles, & portfolios w/ tyler clark, devrel at okta

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auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

Tyler, let's give the people what they want, man. Who are you? What do you do? And we'll go from there. Yeah, sounds good. Wait, by the way, are you gonna be at that conference? Did you mention yourself speaking? Yeah, I'll be there. I'll be there anyway, I'm speaking. All right, cool. Yeah, so my name's Tyler Clark. I actually grew up in Texas, San Antonio area. Live there my whole life, born and raised there and moved up to Utah where I live now. For school, when I was about 21, went to school, ended up meeting my wife at school, who's from Utah, dated for a while and ended up getting married.

So we're settled down here in Utah. And I've been kind of working my way through being a developer in the life of developers. So I started, I started off with a degree in business, but it was because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And after taking some classes in business school, One of the classes that I took was I had to create like an LLC and then like create an e-commerce site and then sell stuff for business I was cool and I ended up doing like wicks in order to get it up online and stuff and bought a bunch of stickers from Alibaba and Had that ship to my house and put it up on a wick store didn't sell anything But I fell in love with like the website part of things and I I remember bragging to everybody look at me the website It's online go check it out And I kind of just fell in love with the web at that point and making websites and stuff So I went on to finish my degree in business, but the whole time I was I started taking CS classes Just for fun.

Yeah, just because I wanted to learn more about it and Ended up getting my first job as like a call center account manager But then they had a dev team that did a different project project and after about a year of that kind of begged my way over and said, hey, let me join your guys' team. Let me learn the ropes and stuff. And so I ended up kind of buddying up with a dev team, begged my way and got like a junior WordPress developer job. This was back in 2014. And so ever since then I just got hooked. So I started creating side projects, portfolios, connecting, I went to meetups.

I started speaking at meetups. I ended up learning that, hey, I was only making $30,000 at a WordPress developer. And I was like, I think there's more money in this. So started learning Angular, Mongo, Express, got a job at a marketing firm for like $45,000 a year. And just kind of continued to kind of job hop and then also learn on the go to eventually land where I'm at now at Dog Zero. That's awesome. That's awesome. So a lot too, and I wanted to get to Chris's comment. Chris, thank you for pointing out. It's tomorrow, by the way. I just unghosted as a series I do with Alicia Novin, who's a product owner at Microsoft.

It's tomorrow, by the way. Not Thursday, we had to move it. All right, so Tyler, let me ask you this, I'm gonna have to go over here. And again, for those of you who are watching, I don't script anything. It's all off the cuff. I hop on, I was like, Tyler, what are you passionate about right now? So there's three things Tyler said. How to get a job? Really just how to navigate this job market right now. how to navigate side hustles and then also what makes a good portfolio. So Tyler, where do you want to start, man? We can talk about like just going the self taught portfolio route.

I think that's a good good segue. I think that's something that I that's what I did. And so I can talk about that. Yeah, give me your thoughts. Yeah. So I don't have a degree in NCS. I took a couple classes in college, but my degree is in business. And then I didn't go to a bootcamp. So I kind of just started with Code Academy. Like that was my education code Academy. And I did the little egg head stuff back in the day also team tree house. I don't know if that exists I think it does but I Spent a lot of time Interviewing for jobs that wasn't qualified for just to learn and I spent a lot of time just trying to throw some web pages together just to talk about and That ended up leading me to a learning How to code well enough I learned how to interview at least well enough to get my next job.

And so I think the combination of hiring, interviewing, even for a job that you might not be qualified for, teaches you what they look for. And then also just throwing stuff on a page is a lot more powerful than just saying that you can do something. So Shabbat comes in here, he goes, definitely trying to finish my self-taught portfolio this week so my ears are wide open. You know, I feel like the self-taught route, how you can correct me if I'm wrong, is a very hard route to take, right? because when you're in a bootcamp, you at least have community, right? You can kind of lean on alumni a little bit.

Um, when you're self taught, I mean, you're on your own, right? So talk, talk to me how you landed that for, I'm always fascinated, especially senior guys like yourself now. How did you land that first job? Honestly, that's, I love talking about this because I'm impressed with myself, but I didn't, you know, at the time, I think, yeah, like in the, in the time, Like looking back, I remember like not just not being happy with what I was doing. Like I didn't want to have my career being an account manager at a call center. Like I just wasn't satisfied with that. And it honestly bugged me.

You can ask my wife too. Like I remember coming home and like, Tony, like I kind of want to do this. I don't know what I want to do. Like this bothers me. And so what I did literally was I would finish up my work and then I would walk over to the dev team and they were all building WordPress sites. That was kind of how I first got my job. They were building WordPress sites for small businesses. I would literally just walk over and just sit with them and just say, what are you guys doing? And I look and see what they're recoding and what they were doing with WordPress.

And with WordPress, it was mostly just theme changing and CS has some stuff. Sure. But I just sat with them for probably six months and just learned from them. Like it was just a conversation with them during lunch at the company parties when I finished up my stuff. And then I became like buddy buddy enough with them that when a position opened, they posted online and they started interviewing for it. I just went over to my boss and their boss was like, Hey, you guys have this. I've kind of been messing around with this for a while now. Like, can you give me a shot?

And luckily, you know, I went from $30,000 account manager job to 32,000 as a junior web developer. And he's like, you know what? I'm fine, let's do it. And he asked the tech lead at the time if I had been working with them or talking with them. And he's like, yeah, I think he knows enough to get into it. I kind of knew enough. I knew nothing about PHP and WordPress, but I had just kind of watched enough. I was like, you know what, I can do this. I've watched enough. And I kind of had to just sell myself and that interview. And eventually I got it.

How did you sell yourself, man? Cause again, Robert's commenting here. I'm a bootcamp graduate of the Puffaloi Multiple Project. I've been looking for a year haven't landed in a reason. I'm sure what gets us to. And my our guy, William Johnson, what up? Yeah, I would love to honestly like in quick little comment about that with the self top portfolio stuff or the bootcamp. So my brother-in-law, he did a bootcamp in very similar situation. He finished bootcamp and then he just couldn't find a job. And so I'm definitely lucky in the fact that I got one, because it's hard to get that first job. And I told my brother-in-law before he went to bootcamp, like, go into that, go into the camp, expecting that it's going to be tough to get that first job.

A lot of people hire mostly senior positions as you know Taylor. It's kind of hard to find your junior job especially one that you don't have any experience on. And so for me the way that I sold myself I used the developer team and the team lead as like my friend as my reference to the job. Like I leaned on them a lot. I became they became a more than a connection where they had seen me do stuff and I had come over to them and said, hey, look at this portfolio thing that I've done and just to show them. And I got their approval before I went to the manager for that job.

And then as we were talking, I said, go and talk to them. Like they've seen what I've done. I've talked to them about it and asked them. And I had convinced or shown enough that they didn't. That's networking. You were networking. in my own company. Like it wasn't even like outside third party. I wasn't even in a job as a developer, but I was networking with the developers at my own company in order for them to vouch for me. Yeah. What are your thoughts? Cause I believe, I mean, Robert, again, you've been super engaged on the show and I can't thank you enough, man. I mean, Robert is, I think lives in a smaller town, Robert, New York, correct me if I'm wrong.

You know, what would be your advice to anybody who kind of lives in a small town right now who, you know, may not be able to go into the office network where somebody feels maybe isolated in kind of these small towns. What would you tell them? Yeah, that's tough. I grew up in a small town. I say San Antonio, but it was actually a small populated town outside of San Antonio. So I've been there. That's how I grew up. If you're in a small town, you're going to either have to start your own thing. You can look at contract work on sites, freelancer.com, that kind of stuff to kind of do your own thing.

And that can take some time to to get doing, but you can kind of own your own life there. And then other than that, like you got to rely mostly on remote jobs. So it's either create your own through some freelancing platforms or you got to network like crazy to find a remote job that'll take on juniors. One thing, one thing I say and Tom, curse your thoughts, especially with small towns because I did a one on one counseling session with, with an individual who live in small town, believe it or not, New York as well. And, and I was just like, you need to go around to the The thing about small towns is that most of the businesses don't have an internet presence.

So you could easily go around and I would literally, I mean, this is kind of some like selling candy when you were in school type bullshit, but like, you're going to have to go knock on some doors, Robert, be like, hey, do you have a website? You have to go talk to Beth down the road at the convenience store, right? And Beth, the owners, you'll be like, well, no, we don't have a website. And it's like, well, let me build one for you. That's gonna be like, do I need to pay you? And you'll be like, that would be great, but otherwise, we'd love to just do it.

And I think it's stuff like that. So this other guy did that and then found a job because of it because he had experience in his portfolio, like real experience as in a public facing site. So yeah, that would be my two cents on that. Dan, it's good to see you buddy. Yeah, I can't see comments on Twitter. Can't see only on LinkedIn and YouTube, but we don't stream to YouTube anymore. Alice comes in here that's so true. Bootcamp will give you the tools for the job pushing through that first role holding on the counter. And yeah, absolutely. And again, I mean, shout out to Tyler for, you know, for doing those things, right?

For the asking for the networking, I think that's huge, especially if you're, and that's what I talk. So Tyler, I want to talk about this for a second. I think you bring up such a great point is, this is where I tell people that sometimes it's okay to get your first job in tech is to not be a developer. Yeah. Because a lot of times you could get into a tech company, and let's be honest, everybody these days for the most part is a tech company. Yeah. Start networking with people in another division. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what happened to me is, I finished my degree in business.

My, I was looking, I had a job at discount tire, a tire store placed into pay the bills. And I looked at companies and this company that I got hired at, they were hiring a developer position and I applied for that one, as well as applying for their call center account manager position. They were like, you know, you know, you're having experience for developer job, but you can do the account manager job. And I was like, you know what, I'll take it. And I had the intention at the time to switch over. And so I didn't want to, you know, do the tire job for my life.

And I figured that that would be my way of end. So 100% agree. Like if you don't, if you can get a job that's 50% or 90% of the way to the job that you want at the company you want, be there for six months, eight months. And the whole time your intention is to champion yourself into the role that you want to have. I would argue, here's a hot take. Here's a hot take, and Tyler, you can disagree with me. I think you're better off just taking a job right now where you know they have a developer team and just to get a job right now in this market instead of holding out for a year trying to land your first job as a developer.

Yeah, I agree. Okay, yep. And then Robert props to you, man. Yeah, I posted what I do on the next door app. Beautiful see shit like that works man. That's what next door. What is that next door is like the neighborhood app Do you guys not have that in Utah? We have neighborhood That same same thing. Yeah next door is kind of like just another app Alright, so let's uh some portfolios. So let's talk about so we talk about how to get a job a little bit But let's talk about right now In this market. It's crazy people still doing layoffs. I I don't know when we're gonna get out of this thing I've been saying Q1 and the Q1 now.

I don't know So what are just some general Tyler's tips right now that you want to give to developers just to navigate, find a job, be aware, yada yada yada. Yeah, I said this. So we talked Taylor at Magnolia JS and I mentioned this in my talk and it's the idea and this is a hot take. So we'll see him and he, how many octa people are watching this but it's the idea that you have to be selfish for your own career. like you have to prioritize your career, which might mean doing some stuff or taking on some extra work. And so what I mean by that is companies will let you all without a thought, right?

They have the power to just do that fire without cause. And I give you severance great and all, but they they can let you off whenever they feel like it. And so with that mentality, obviously be as as loyal as you can and do the work that you can at your company. You want to be a great employee, but make sure that you're taking advantage of company perks, like training sessions, make sure that you're asking to go to events to network, make sure that you're doing things that not only help your company, but then also prioritize your career. And so I already mentioned a couple of them, but like ask your company for money to do LinkedIn Learning or to get a subscription, ask them to have you go to a conference.

One that has great recruiting and one you're at the conference, hit all the booths and talk to all the recruiters and get names and make connections. Don't just go to these places and ask for the stuff just to be there and have a boondoggle and enjoy your time. But you have to be, you have to prioritize yourself constantly because it's not it's not about living in fear of being laid off. It's the idea of being ready in case something does happen. I love that. I love that. Yeah, Robert. So a few questions here. Got front end masters from more. There you go. There you go.

That's great. What do y'all use to evaluate the job market? I use my experiences because I'm in it. Shabab, I'm a kind of recruiter. So I mean, I'm kind of seeing it. And also too, I get to tech Twitter and Tyler probably the same to you, right? Yeah. Yeah. You said Q1, is that because you think like interest rates are going to go down or what's your, what's your, what's your, what's your qualitative data there? I mean, I think for me, I think interest rates, you know, you're starting to see some chatter that they could potentially come down. I think it's going to have to probably come down a bit.

I hate to say it. I think the further we get into 2024, the election, I think the economy's probably gonna come back. So, you know, and it was that November, right? So, you know, I think end of Q1, maybe beginning to Q2. So March, April is kind of my thought. So. Yeah. And the same time though, usually with the election, there's always mass chaos that happens to you. Oh, it's true, right? Yeah. I mean, listen, I think it's always like a good and bad. Yeah. Like there's always like good things and there's also crazy stuff. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So what if companies institute that, I'm from Janet here.

What if the company's insinuate, sorry, can't read this one, that you're looking for another job when you ask them to sponsor you to go to conference. I assume that means we should leave that company anyway at that point. Also, I don't, what if companies insinuate the show? I don't know, like yeah, if that's their mindset, that's just a very close minded mindset. Like, companies should want, like, should want you to go. Yeah. Yeah, there's a benefit to them of you going. And I'm not saying just go to the conference just to find another job. Right. Unless it's a good way to try to do it.

But the perk for the business is that it's a perk. It's a privilege for the developer. The conferences are put on for developers in order to learn as well as the network. And so yeah, I could see a company saying, we're not going to let you go because you might leave. And honestly, you're saying, Janet, that's a red flag to me. because honestly, it's almost like the boyfriend, girlfriend that talks to people and we'll dump you at a moment's notice, but then doesn't let you go out with your friends. So it's not a good relationship. Do we need to unpack that? Do you want me to talk about that?

No, I just, I don't know, I've been with the layoffs and stuff. It's interesting, you know, how companies, it's like, all right, you know, we're laying off 17% Spotify, see all things for everything and good luck. And then usually it's some CEO that says like, oh, you know, we made the best decision at the time. But now it's the best decision to let you all go. And that's the end of it, right? It moved on with A, but all these folks now are that wife, husband and wife spouse, kids. Yeah. So this kind of goes in a little bit of side hustles, which we're going to talk about as we kind of wrap up here in the next 10 minutes.

Anything else on how to maybe not bulletproof yourself, but any other tips right now? now that for people. Yeah, a quick comment with Emmet down there. Yeah, I agree, Emmet, you have to, in order to go to the network though, you have to prove that there's some ROI to them. Like it's got to be beneficial to the company. So it's good to, a lot of conferences, I think render, or somebody else has like a show this to your boss, flyer, and you can use that. You render and Clark at that conference, I think just created it too. Yeah, those are good, those are good, easy cheat sheets that you can share.

Yeah, yeah with like side hustle stuff. Honestly side hustles for me rolls into a portfolio as well, you know and Being able to put more in your resume other than the domain knowledge of your company goes a long way In my opinion because it shows that you are interested in more things other than just the domain knowledge of your company Shows that you're hustler. You're an entrepreneur And I've and I we've you know we hired somebody recently at our company I don't know the last year and she's an entrepreneur. She's amazing. And that was kind of a sticking point that got her through the interview.

Like every time we mentioned her name, it was, oh yeah, she's like an entrepreneur, right? She did this business or she had the side project kind of thing. And that kind of became her, you know, like in the office where like Kevin's like, I don't want, or who's it Ryan? Was like, I don't want to be that guy. like Angela's the cat girl and he says, I don't wanna be a guy and he's a being fire guy. Well, having some type of identity or yeah, or like it could be a portfolio, it could be a side project, can give you a name, right? Like Taylor's the recruiter guy.

And you can become that name, which actually is a lot more powerful going through an interview process of standing out. And this is just being Tyler at Auth0 or Tyler formerly from Auth0, like Tyler's the, he's the, I don't know, would you give me a name, but like, you probably should just give me a, yeah, I mean, I'd probably just give you the React guy. Yeah, the React guy, whatever it is, like that, that is much more powerful going through the interview whenever you just see Tyler versus like the stick or whatever name you are versus just the name on the resume. Yeah, yeah. Let's see here, side house, oh, we got a few more comments here.

I mean, I don't want to stress people out. You have to prove to them that sending you brings back an ROI. I mean, unless you're like a salesperson, I don't really know how much ROI you can bring back to the organization. But I would say you would, you need to be able to, you need to be able to talk about what you learned, right? And be able to talk about it briefly. But yeah, I don't want to stress people out. I have to bring back ROI because I'm in sales. But, you know, I think a normal individual, I don't think necessarily has to do that.

Sometimes a travel is necessary. My guy, Jason, I'm in Western New York, not exactly a hub, but I can get to New York City in a few hours or plan trips, sacrifice now to benefit the latter. Yeah, or later. Yeah, I mean, you do what you gotta do. I mean, listen, right now sucks. It just sucks. And so, you know, you gotta be scrappy. You gotta be scrappy. So Shabab comes in here, what projects would you say junior should put on their time into underrated projects that make you think more people should be building this whoa interesting Tyler yeah, yeah, so I have something for you Create a list of companies that you'd like to be hired at Then step two is go to job descriptions that you That you're going to Yep, and then look at the technology and the tech stack that they're they're looking for and then create a portfolio that checks all those boxes.

And maybe that position isn't gonna be open in three months when you finally get your domain. I've got about 15 domains that I still have not used, but maybe it'll take three months, and that position's already gonna be long-time filled. But usually that tech stack doesn't change, especially core languages like React and databases and that kind of stuff. That's what I would design the portfolio around. So first, kind of start with the companies you're interested in and then work backwards. And let's say that that company is in hiring when you're done as well. Odds are companies that you liked are probably using similar languages or frameworks around the town.

So that's how I would do it. I'll work backwards. Don't just go and throw something up that's crazy unless you're trying to learn something. I would start with where you want to be hired at and then work backwards from there. I love that. I love that. Want to get into side hustles real fast because we've got a few minutes left. What are your thoughts on them? people have them, what should they be aware of? And this is if you have a full-time job now. Yeah. Yeah. Side hustles are great. I mean, like with the economy today and all about that mentality of being selfish for yourself is obviously don't get fired.

But having some type of outlet not only might be helpful mental health, but it also might just help you add to your resume. It'll help you get some more money for your life. And it's it's it might be necessary. Yeah. With the where you depending on where you live in big cities or whatnot, it might be necessary. So make sure you know like what you're doing and there's no, you know, non-disclosure, competing act or anything like that with your company. But I think that they're super powerful on getting your next gig, maybe moving to that as a full-time gig, or even just you learning a new language or framework.

So it's kind of like The negative of it, I'd say, those are all positive. The negative is obviously it's gonna take some of your time away from life, and that might be needed for you to kind of recharge and get away from work. And that's what you need, that's what you need. But I think there's a lot of benefits of throwing something together. And I would also ask too, I don't know if you said this, I gotta work slack, I do apologize. Be aware of your company's policies. Yeah. Because, and I would just ask, like, hey, what are your thoughts on side hustles? And there are, and some come, most, most companies are chill with it.

You know, gun was, well, gun was like, yeah, we're fine with it. If you're trying to make more money because of it, they were like, just talk to us and see if we can't work out something. If it's purely compensation based, but they were like, if it's a passion and doesn't affect your day to day, like we don't really care. Sorry. Yep. Ask before you kind of dive in because the last thing you want is to not ask dive into a project Somehow it gets caught because you use a work email instead of personal email And then you're fucked Alright Tyler last four questions again.

Thanks y'all for tuning in. I appreciate the comments have been great by the way As a junior just getting my started the other week, I guess i'm less picky about the particular text like to make sure i'm going in and join about Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I ask good questions. This is good. This is good. Do we just get a deal? So yeah, absolutely. Shabab, who are the Taylorists of Texas you recommend looking to do it? I really would. I appreciate that. Danny Thompson is obviously pretty, he's in Dallas. Actually, there's a pretty good Dallas community. Braden, who's been on my show, Danny. You have some Austin folks like Shashi Lowe.

So Shabab, send me a DM and I'll get you some names that can send to you. So Alex, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Robert, I'm glad you enjoyed it. All right, last four questions. Rapid Fire. I can always do first question, Tyler, what do you do? Or no, sorry. If salaries, if money was not an issue, what would you do for your job outside of tech? I would be a high school basketballer or football coach. For real? Yeah. I don't really want to teach. I don't know how the teachers are like history and then football. Yeah, like I just want to do that. That's what I would love to do.

I love that. I love that. Second question. What do you do right now outside of work that brings you joy? Well, I just mentioned there football basketball stuff. And Will Johnson, he's probably not in the chat anymore though. He knows I always talked to him about it. But yeah, here in Utah, I do a little flag league for a white man that are trying to be cool on the field. So I did that. Yeah, it's right. You do high soccer. Yeah. So I do this very similar indoor flag football league here. And then also just play basketball at my church on Tuesday tonight, Tuesday night.

So it's kind of nice. You guys any good? Is your team any good? Or is it just like, I mean, the flat and the football thing is actually we win when we've been winning the rec league last couple of seasons. We just moved up to the comp league and we're doing okay. Trying to hang with them. Nice. I love that. I love diving into like guys and gals that do like competitive sports outside of work and see how good they are because like we moved up from there's like upper and lower for everything upper lower A upper lower B and we were in lower B we moved to upper A we've been to the championship plus four years.

So I love like talking with guys and organizers. We're like, they were gonna just like, all right, you guys have won rec two times. Yeah, it's time for you to move up now. You got to move up. And we're actually, we're actually, we're undefeated until last Thursday, where we just got destroyed by the defending champ. So we got to go back to drawing board and I love that stuff. I love that stuff. Will goes, Tyler is a big winner flag football. I love it. But third question, what tools, technologies, trends, frameworks, are you tinkering with, messing with that you like that you want to share?

Yeah, I mean, this one's not like a secret, but next day, I'm trying to get a lot better at that and get a little bit more around with that. I've always been a great React app guy in the in-depth realm. You don't get a lot of hands-on experience with next or app development. So I'm just trying to get better at that and learn all the quirks of next. I love that. I love that. Real quick, as a non-developer, is next replacing anything? Like that's currently out there right now? Like would it replace like React? I mean, it is React, right? Oh, it is React. Yeah, it's a React framework.

So, Gotcha. Okay. What's another React framework? Gatsby. Okay. Gatsby's another one. Cool. Sweet. I just didn't know. Yeah, it's not as popular now. I mean, React is kind of like the vanilla framework. And next is like an opinionated way of using reality. Okay, interesting. It comes with a lot of built-in tools and additional functionality. It's an opinionated way of using reality. I love it, I love it. Last question, we had guidance counselors in middle school, high school and college, but now as adults, we don't really have any. That's why the show was called, guidance counselors 2.0. What would be your biggest piece of career advice to young Tyler?

All I can think of is like things that I know now that I learned the hard way if I would have just gone back and told them, told Tyler back in the day. And it was what I mentioned to, or the janitor, somebody asked me about it, but was, I should have looked at the companies that I wanted to work at, and then make portfolios using the text tags. I'm a big fan of that. It took me a while to catch onto that, and it wasn't until two jobs ago that I started doing that. I was just like, what sounds cool, and throw something together?

and then go in the job and say, hey, have you used CSS modules or see this in JS? And I was like, no, I just use vanilla. What's that? And so being better prepared for the interviews is good. And I would say one more thing. Yeah, one more thing I'd say is it's okay, going back to my comment about being selfish that I told you about. Yeah. Oh, this is gonna be a hot take. But I think that you should interview often. Yeah, I'm a brother. Even if you're happy at your job right now and you can even tell that as you're interviewing to say like I'm not particularly looking but you know I want to interview and see you know how hard it is to get back into interviewing when you don't have a job, you feel desperate, you lose your self confidence and you might even just get recruiter's emails and at that point.

So like interview even though you have a job and even though you're happy or better to be prepared and put yourself forward then it is to put all your hands and faith into So a company that might just lay off the next day. Yeah, absolutely. Totally agree. I'm shot to my brother. He has done an amazing job. He does it. He's not on social. He doesn't do everything I preach. But one thing he does really well is he just always networks and through interviewing, through interviewing. He always takes the calls, always chats. So yeah, highly recommend doing that. Highly recommend. Cool. All right, y'all. Well, thanks again for hanging out with us today.

We appreciate Tyler Stann on a quick second because I said, about a UFA Air. I'm going to go connect with Tyler. Tyler, where could people find you? Yeah, so I can't talk in the chat, but you can find me on Twitter, it's IAMTilerWKlark. Awesome, I did vlog in, but yeah. Okay, cool, I am Tyler. I am Sisir Tyler, he's a great follow. Reach out to him, if you guys wanna shop it up about next or any of those other frameworks I don't know about. But y'all have a great one, appreciate y'all. Tomorrow I have Chris Woodruff, another prolific speaker on the circuit. He's coming on a show tomorrow.

He just got a new job as a software architect. I'm going to talk about his latest job search. Um, but yeah, y'all have a good one. Thank you so much. You can shout out render for the show and the sponsorship. We appreciate it. Great. Coming by Jan down there too. Oh, is that it? It's a whole different vibe to go into interviewing, Oh, yeah. Yeah. True truth, true truth. Janet, Janet speaking truth bombs today. Cool. All right. Y'all have a good one. Take it easy. Hey, you did it. You listened to an entire episode. And I am very grateful because you know why? There's a lot of podcasts out there.

There's a lot of episodes and I myself rarely finished an entire episode. So I appreciate you so, so much for listening. Quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the app store. I want this to be discoverable to others. And the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it, please, like right now, unless you're driving, then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me at Tdaston on all social media handles. And I hope you have a fantastic day.