leveraging your strengths in the job search w/ vp of eng jesse gray

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auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

all right got wait says we're live doesn't mean anything good morning everybody good morning uh let's see here just checking I haven't got any emails or anything all right I got the email we're live on YouTube let me check LinkedIn uh nope still not there on LinkedIn yet if you are tuning in right now say hey if you're on LinkedIn and you're watching this say hey LinkedIn lags sometimes I also have done almost an entire stream before and it never went live on LinkedIn and that's primarily what this is for so let's see here please say hey we love to hear from you all right

I just got the notification that we're live Jesse usually goes smoother Than This I Promise uh good morning everybody see here checking still not there yet it does say we're live for those of you tuning in welcome good morning um please comment let me know we're live on YouTube I mean uh LinkedIn I'm not going to like dive in yet until I either get a comment or I'm waiting on I'm waiting on my LinkedIn profile to like hit something and it has not yet so please say hey the other platform's like what the heck's going on just got two dudes like staring at each other

right now with one dude just kind of rambling ah good morning everybody Tuesday happy Tuesday um let's see here I'm G check Twitter Twitter we we could to go on Twitter all right we're good on Twitter worldwide on all the platforms here all right it's still not doing that but we are just gonna go with it this morning all right we're good morning everybody we're just gonna go with I think we're good I think we're good good morning happy Tuesday uh welcome to guidance coun 2.0 excited to have Jesse the man the myth the legend you know it's funny I I was talking to Jesse

backstage I was like you know we I I've known of Jesse for a long time um you know some of the past companies uh have done business with Jesse and and the companies he's been at and and um typically the way way it's worked in the past is is that as a recruiter I don't get to interact with hiring managers right typically in a traditional recruiting model I I nerd out with the engineers and then I send them to a salesperson the salesperson send them to Jesse and Jesse works with the salesperson so I've like known of Jesse because I've never been a salesperson really

up here we go ta ta's tun in all right so we're we're good so I've never been like a salesperson up until recently and I've never had a chance to really hang out with Jesse I've heard so many great things and so I was like I just finally asked Jesse Jesse you want to come on the show and he's like sure why not so Jesse thank you my friend I appreciate it yeah it's great thank you so much for having me uh it's good to finally meet up and talk and get to know you a little bit absolutely man absolutely so say hey would love

to hear from you you know I was talking to Jesse that's backstage I created this like again speakers are secondary here right this this is a place this is a meeting place for folks virtually who can tune in say hey network with people in the DMS you know again I tell people if I were you if I were you I would literally tune in every day drop a comment I would network and dm with every single person in the comments right so literally like TAA I'd message Chris and then Chris I'd message Jordan and and all that and just say hey it was good to

see you and do that every day right I've been doing this for four years I was telling just Jesse this backstage I've been doing this for four years now and I've also done it on unicorn Founders my other podcast focusing on startups so with where I bring on Founders so if you've been with me in my journey for four years and you've networked off the back of me you would have a pretty substantial Network and so that is what I want for you but if you don't say hey I don't I don't know I don't know if you're tuning in no one knows if you're

tuning in we're we're you know we're not in our Apple Vision Pro goggles yet right um eve n though that would be pretty sick guidance counts are 2.0 in the metaverse even though I know those are not too two separate things so please say hey uh excited to talk about uh a really great topic today um uh Jesse's got real experience in this so excited um so let's know where you tuned in from want to give a shout out obviously to first and foremost gunio for hiring me and kind of you know listen if you need te Tech Talent let us know I do want

to give a shout out to endorsed AI um you know I'm I am doing some Consulting with endorsed it is a program that essentially uses AI to take resume applicants and the ones that are most applicable to your job shoot them to the top traditionally when you submit your resume in a traditional setting uh the internal recruiters can only search like timestamp right so if you're like the first person to submit then depending on how the recruit Rec sorts it you could either be the first person they see or the last person they see right so what endorsed AI does is it uses actually AI

which is I think is really really cool and it takes all all the information and and it actually portrays the most applicable profile to the first to the very top for the recruiter so I would check out endorse AI you know Jesse I'd probably check this out if you guys are hiring in the near future because it really will help your internal recruiting teams uh find the best talent have to sift through 300 or a thousand uh resumes right now uh let's see here uh Jeremy it is good hey is for horses 100% I have a lot of them too by the way um cool

all right nothing me running my mouth Jesse let's give the people what they want man just give me a background about who you are what do you do at a high level and then we'll dive into some questions yeah um so Jesse gray uh worked with most of y'all mainly in the Nashville Community I was there for 20 years recently moved down to Alabama close to uh my grandchild who was just born um really that that whole career has just been um helping delivery teams get it get it done and just being there to serve them help them whatever whatever they need uh I try

to to be and and get for them so we have a mission we're trying to get something accomplished and stuff gets in the way I try to get that stuff out of the way so is that um adding more team members or um you know some process issues or we don't have scope whatever it is uh just take care of the teams and they know what to do I help them get it done yeah you definitely seem like the type from like afar you definitely seem the type of guy that like companies hire when they're like is messed up and like like Jesse come in

just fix it that definitely seems like you yeah that's um that's kind of been the bread and butter is is turnaround work where um maybe something didn't go well and uh maybe some key players were lost along the way and it's it's time to rebuild and and get it running again um yeah that that's the work has been um where I usually tend to excel I think I just have a calming demeanor for most folks even though inside I'm like a terrible mess just like everybody right uh um call me pres this is this is what we need to do let's go do it and

make that as easy as we can I love that man I love that so um for those of you tuning in um again welcome uh so I've been doing this for four years and and we're still gonna talk about job search stuff because one of the I I but I now have set questions right I've always bragged for four years I never have set question all this is off the CU I I I want to have a little bit more structure get some more information out of people um and so Jesse we're going to start with an opening question right so this is this is

kind of a new one right um what did you want to do when you were in grade school when you were young and do you think you would be good at that now oh wow I wanted to be an archaeologist um in study like dinosaurs and stuff I don't know if I'd be good at that now that's req u do you think you be good at that I mean because like you kind of can't fix that no dead yeah sounds like a lot of digging and like figuring out what bone is what thing it sounds really boring honestly um yeah yeah I think like running

from dinosaurs and like playing with Dinosaurs is way more fun than being an archaeologist but I I didn't I don't know much about it uh I don't think I'd be good at it I love it I love it uh for those of you who are tuning in would love to know drop it in the comments what you wanted to be in grade school and if you would be good at now I'm genuinely curious I wanted to be um either a lawyer or a vet and I am not good with details and I'm terrible with science so I would have just it would have been an

absolute just train wreck uh if I would have done both of those so U well Jesse let's get into meat potatoes of it man I mean one one of the questions I sent you that you said you really resonated with was basically like you know what is your biggest advice for folks who feel like they don't know what to do coming out of college or early stage of their career you know you I sent you all these questions you email me back like that that one really stands out let's unpack that why does that stand out uh to you right now yeah man that's a

big one and I could probably talk about it for like two minutes or two hours um but but basically I'm hearing the feedback of a lot of folks in the same pattern with like hundreds and hundreds of applications to just trying to get any job anywhere related right and um I think you need to keep doing that but really just for the things that you want to do and maybe put your energy somewhere else uh that uh would yield better results right like um the the younger job Seekers today uh the market is just not like um a place where they're going to thrive right

now so why not create some of those opportunities and embrace something a little more entrepreneur there's um kind of some superpowers that the youth hav e that others don't whereas sure um they might have a little more time on their hands um a little more permission to fail a lot less to lose so why not find people in that same boat and um come together and like hey you know the five of us are all job seeking we're desperate and we're not uh really getting anywhere like why don't we just start our own company and um find a need fill a need and an easy

example would be like local delivery services right like hey let's go to war with Uber Eats like we could take over this town build up a little website we all have cars like nothing's getting Del to this town without us and yeah it doesn't have to be like a big corporate thing where squeezing all the margin out of everybody it can be a private business where the mission is just to take care of everybody pay top dollar and you know still compete um yeah you need a little bit of tech you need a little bit of of of every skill that's within your friend group

and maybe you can um make something big out of it someday I don't know but uh I think I think action is kind of the remedy for a lot of the things that is are plaguing um sure you younger job Seekers you know it's there's so much to unpack there um again I could talk about this topic for two hours as well um so the first thing I want to do is why why do you think that folks coming out of school Boot Camp or whatever don't have an entrepreneur now there are some that have entrepreneur mindsets don't get me wrong but I feel like

a lot of them do not I kind of discovered my entrepreneurial like side of things like in the last three years so like definitely Late Bloomer over here why do you think that is you think it's the curriculum do you think you think we're just hardwired to do the nin to-5 what are your thoughts on that um I I don't I don't think it's for everybody um and and maybe something discover later in life like if you if you think of the um the public school system right it's geared toward like job Seekers a nd uh you know making you fit for a job not

so much like embracing entrepreneurship and and going out on your own and believing in yourself um so like put on a track and it's very easy to stay on that track you probably need to um just just ask yourself some hard questions about uh you know what other opportunities out the Roy if you just start creating your own um so so why it is that way um is probably a little bit it's it's the it's the less common path and most of our systems are built to just keep you on that track 100% talk to me about leveraging your strengths right that's the title of

this episode today it's really something kind of you said backstage while we were getting set up I feel like everybody tries to fix their weaknesses and nobody really doubles down in their strengths I know we hear about it but I feel like all of us are so I feel all of us are very insecure all everybody's insecure I mean let's just be honest and I feel like we're always like oh we got we got to fix what we're weak at right like I am terrible at details I am terrible uh at at sometimes listening ask my wife uh I am I am awful at a

lot of things but there's a lot of things I'm really good at that I've just decided just to double down on so why do you think that we as humans just really don't focus on our strengths as much yeah um I I think probably criticism right like uh yeah it's it's very easy either for yourself or others to come in and be like hey you need to be better at that or you're not as good as you know everyone else at this thing and uh um I I don't think our strengths are highlighted and recognized so uh finding them or um or leaning into them

is probably just not as encouraged yeah um and uh I I think I think we grew up with that right like just be normal and uh uh what well first of all what is normal normal and uh um your strengths are going to be the things that prel you right and if you double down on those um they're generally going to take you a lot further o n a path and um open up doors for you that uh um investing in your weaknesses wouldn't uh no it's good to be balanced right like if you really suck at something that is terribly important for you to

get good at sure sure you probably want to take the time but uh not not everything right like that's where we have teams and others we can lean on in our lives or um or in our jobs and uh diing things up and uh yeah I just think what gets attention is probably our shortcomings talk about so I want to tie back in the entrepreneurial Spirit you know Jeremy comes in here you know it's hard to make money on your own and things are more expensive than ever in this economy can you talk about what are some key characteristics that so if somebody's sitting watching

this or listening this now in the future and they're like I mean all this sounds great but like I don't know if I have what it takes to be an entrepreneur like what are some key Things based off your career that you've seen um even you know maybe counseling some individuals coming out of boot camps or whatever um that that really just makes for a good entrepreneurial Spirit yeah um I I I don't know if this is an exact answer but I think it might speak to the spirit of his question um do doing it on your own if you don't have that um kind

of built in is is going to be really tough I I think what I was trying to say is like there's a lot of people in the same boat as you one of you in your group of 20 is probably pretty entrepreneurial and might right take some of steps and we can rally around that person or um you know if it's only a little bit scary like okay do it scared um if you if you know you want to do it and you see value there um you see a path forward um there's mentors you can lean on uh AI can teach you you know

some of the steps along the way and you know it's not an All or Nothing proposition right you can start walking down a path and um and kind of learn as you go um toward the things and if it's not fo r you and you're just like I I would never want to do that I just want to land the job then you please keep Landing the job or or look for for folks um in the same boater looking to start up these companies and see if you can get on board yeah absolutely I want to I want to ask I want to Pivot the

conversation a little bit to to job search just because you're a hiring manager you know your VP of engineering um you know you've you've you're you're kind of role and organizations is to come in and fix probably a lot of people Personnel you know this Market's tough right now what how how can somebody separate themselves right now coming things yeah um I I don't know if if this demographic will have my answer um the the track record of success is huge right um companies right now don't feel the need to take the risk the market is kind of saturated sure uh with with all levels

right so a a junior or associate level folk who um may not have had the experience built up to lean on to say I'm a proven investment right like you're you're gonna win with me um right they're they're just in a saturated Market of folks who have that track record and it's so much easier just go with what we know works yeah um and uh I I I think it's tough and awful and um I I want it to be different for sure right right so where I can give opportunities and take risks I'm I'm going to um but uh yeah it's it's not uh

uh it's not wide open where it's just like oh man I wish I wish there was an engineer in this town I could hire right now like we we need to find just somebody or anybody that can fill the spot right it's uh yeah yeah um sure shots are the are kind of the way to go so how can somebody so let's so let's talk kind of two profiles here how can somebody more senior in their career communicate you know as a hir manag your s how can they communicate they're ass sure thing like what do you like to see for more senior folks and

then we'll talk about Junior folks but when you when you're talking with a senior individual in the job search what do you like to hear or see from from from that person right now yeah um generally in my interview criteria I'm gonna talk about like you know tell me about a time where um you exceeded an expectation and then also like a time that you didn't meet one and um getting to real specifics around what was the project yeah uh who was on it what was the role that you played um you know what made it succeed and then what did you do in addition

to like you know go above and beyond and deliver either more or faster um and really get into like a real good use case of of um how that all went and their overall impact on on the project and then also like how gracefully how gracefully do they they fail and do they they take accountability and responsibility for when they do um uh do seniors have a do seniors have a hard time answering those questions um there's probably more of a humble pattern there I think they're okay A a little uh reticent to like claim their wins like they did a really good job and

then um sometimes they beat themselves a little bit too much on their on their their failure to deliver right instead of just like these are the things I learned and we'll do better next time um so uh I I see probably more humility there than anything and and generally that's a pretty attractive trait uh but uh don't s yourself short like yeah you need an advocate and the only person who's going to do it is you so like don't uh don't overemphasize the the negative more than it needs to be I feel like man what you said just like giving impact how did you move

the needle you know on this project what tech did you touch what did you actually do not the team I feel like I mean I look at resume I mean I've looked at resumes for years right so it's like I feel like that's the thing that will separate you to like to like the 1% like if you can sit and interview and be like these are the six things that I moved the needle at at my last company be you know took run time down from you know a minute to a second whatever right and yada yada yada yada like that is the separator right

now and I feel like as a hiring manager yourself you're sifting through so much and I hate to say junk because they're not junk they're people but like there's so much fluff out there that it's like really hard to like narrow in on like okay what did you do I don't care about the team you were on what did you do yep absolutely 100% yeah you heard here first folks I'm just kidding I doubt this is the first time youve heard that so so get them dubs either in like personal projects or um you know however however you can collect them and get them uh

and please learn to tell the stories very well um there's there's people like myself and others who would give you resume and a uh resume read and a mock interview uh just just asking your network for hiring managers uh generally we're pretty happy to do it yeah yeah absolutely absolutely and then and then I would still say this still applies to Juniors right I mean seriously like you can have I mean you can create a uh I wish I could tell who this is Jesse could write a book on this yeah yeah um uh when it comes like Junior devs like you can still develop

an app that can be used by you know I I used this example a while ago like I lived in East Nashville for a bit before I'm up here in Hendersonville now and and you know there's Stray Cats everywhere right in East Nashville and it's like you know let's create an app where like you can like keep up with what straight cats are around and like I'm pretty sure like some cat Fanatics would like download it you could probably have like 50 people on your app and I feel like as a junior developer if I interview with you Jesse and say hey I developed an

app where I can keep up with all the straight cats in East Nashville we have 50 people using this app we've done bang bang bang bang bang and host on the cloud y y y y I'm pretty sure you'd be lik e dang right yeah yeah that'd be that'd be super impressive right um and and uh the folks who go through boot camps or you know CS or whatever they're going to have projects for sure but a lot of those are going to be just like theoretical so if you if you have practical application and can show like you know moving a need or or

doing something even if it's silly um yeah for sure that for sure that'd be impressive right um yeah absolutely i' be excited to see that project what's up Billy it's good to see you buddy um so uh yeah I mean again I mean remember like one of the first apps on the iPhone was like a flashlight everybody loved it or the one where you like were tilt the beer over and like acted like you were drinking it I mean literally like it doesn't have to be but again I feel like as a hiring manager right now you want to see like that kind of that

forward thinking right I mean talk to me about you know from a from a follower to like a Forward Thinking not leader but just forward thinking person I feel like right now people like everybody's budget's thin there have been layoffs everybody's running and gunning right now I feel like people need to hire somebody who can think critically and not just a follower right now thoughts on that yeah I mean the the more value and leverage you can provide um and demonstrate like the easier it's going to be for you to to land something uh being you know strictly into a certain piece of the stack

or you know front end back end or whatever like I only do this language or um I'm only this valuable in this in this limited context right like it's it's not going to open those doors like critical thinking owning things end to end I can get the whole job done you know here's me proving that I've gotten the whole job done in the past um and uh I know why I'm doing something I can measure it I can report on it I can tell you why it's significant to the business I can tell you the business impact of what I delivered right that tha t

whole meaningful context behind everything going on right um would would definitely set you apart from from others who uh tend to isolate and just care about some subset of problems yeah absolutely absolutely I I want to kind of get to a few more questions before we wrap up again with last 10 minutes I knew this what happen Tom FES when you're having fun um in your experience where where do people you know I I say really fall short in their career but like where where do you think people just fall short when they take a job right with like the people you have hired in

your in in your career that you think they're going to be fantastic and they just it flounders right has there been any consistent theme um you know give me some thoughts on that because because you've hired a lot I mean you've been around the block so I definitely want to tap into that a little [Music] bit um yeah I I think there's probably two patterns um one is a leadership problem where they may have lacked clear Direction um and just kind of like been running off on some unclear mission for a long time and there's not a good communication Loop of like how they're doing

or um a good feedback leap and like okay well I see you're chasing this but is that the right thing and you're ultimately getting to the result right um so so I've seen that just like not set up to win um leading to not winning and uh there's probably culpability on both sides of the events there but it's more the leadership um and the other is just being um uh uh singularly focused and um you know maybe maybe you're getting the thing done you're on like a specific here's my project here's what I'm going to do but not really stretching yourself outside of that to

learn an additional thing or be helpful to your team just just kind of like being a single track individual player like on on the straight narrow for the thing that's going to get you the checkbox but not necessarily like man we really love working with you you've added a ll this value and uh like there's no way we're going to let you go right um so really ingraining yourself with your team the thing that you're on stretching yourself be it um uh knowledge or contribution or both yeah uh I think those are um two similar patterns I see where where people just get to the

end of like a three to six month run and um NE neither end of the neither is really impressive the other I man you said something I want to ask you this like you know getting in Grain with the team like I feel like longer the days now where because I mean I I I tell folks like this like I started recruiting when doet web forms was hot right like I mean I've I've seen the TR the transition of what a developer and engineer is and you know we're I think we're past past the place where you lock a developer in in in a cubicle

and slide them Pizza on the door and say go code right I think it's much more of a collaborative breathing kind of team and I really feel like correct me if I'm wrong I feel like you could get you could not be you could not quite be hitting strides but man if you're a sponge and you're part of the team and you're great to work with I feel like that will keep you on longer not saying it's going to keep you on forever but keep you on longer than just like being the dick and the corner who's like obviously can code anything but like no

one really likes working with you what are your thoughts on that yeah I'm firing the dick in the corner all day exactly yeah 100% like like if you perform a little less than that person but everyone loves working with you and you're moving the team forward and you're in a team that's like that you're GNA Crush that one guy right like yes that team wins all day so% um yeah don't don't be the guy in the corner for sure what so Jesse and again as we start wrapping up here um trying to get a few of these questions because I kind of want to get

in your brain of so many years man I mean obviously you've been around the block what makes a fulfilling career at this point for you I mean like like like like if you could go back and tell your younger self you know I'm sure you were grinding we're probably still grinding let's be honest but let's talk about younger Jesse kind of the grinding and all that what would you go back and tell him on how to how to be a fulfilling career think there's probably two gears there uh the first is like what is going to sustain you over the short and Midterm and that

is just like getting it done right like you're you're setting out to do a thing are you are you meeting that goal are you moving things forward like you need to fill your cup regularly on those things but as I look back across my career like why do I just keep doing it and um like what keeps me going is probably just looking back at people who um like working with me and I like working with them and just like building up uh folks that I can look back on and like have they genuinely helped me and have I genuinely helped them and um just

just having uh a lot of that to look forward to look back on and and forward to like can I work with these folks again and um you know have I have I made an impact in their lives or have they have they made some in mine right like that um over the long term is probably really the thing that just like man that's awesome I I love my network they're great yeah you know it's funny i' so I haven't asked this question a ton yet but I've started to ask it nobody has said money title you know cars nobody said that they've kind of

all said the exact same thing with you are you getting fulfilled do you have friends do you have a network do you feel like fed right from you know an emot otal side from a career perspective um that seems to be the consistent answer so that's cool that's awesome I love that um so uh final thing here um you know I do kind of a rapid fire here and again for those of you tuning in thank you again I appreciate the comment section has been great I see a ticker up at my corner I'm the only one that can see it but there's a fair

amount of people that have watched this Jesse um I want to do kind of a rapid fire here questions um for you uh first thing if I if if I told you hey Jesse tomorrow morning when you wake up you cannot do anything in Tech but I will pay you what you're making now but you can't go what you do in Tech what career would you pick up tomorrow um w't say break dancing at the Olympics man break dancing at the Olympics was number one um some some sort of Consulting just just Team level Consulting helping teams uh be effective and efficient with each other

um get to a high performing State all right I'm gonna challenge you a little bit I want work stuff like give me a hobby that you think you could go after and make a job if I if I could say I'm G pay you the same you're making now go do a hobby what would it be J I have work I think I'm gonna give you the same answer that's fair yeah I'm so uninteresting in the way just I love it no no man it's all good it's all good second question um what do you like to do outside of work for fun man I

mean what what what ises what does a weekend look like for Jesse what does uh after five look like for you this might surprise you but I'm pretty chill and laidback um can't tell family uh you know uh going on a walk like grabbing something to eat um just hanging out and chatting with folks like that's I'm super easy that's awesome man I love it um third question you know uh any I I you know I kind have a lot of developers on the show right so I ask them like any tools Frameworks you know that they're tinkering with is there anything that you've read

or seen either from a tech leadership side of things Andor just any sort of tech content you've read or watched recently that you want to give a shout out to um I I I'll tell you the two that I'm most interested in right now sure um so more more for the devs uh I'm I think we're about to start a trial for us of GitHub Ent rate all that like you know yeah um my AI helper tool that I'm going to use anyway like I'm going to use one it might as well just be like repository aware so um we're going to we're going to

tral that and make sure that it's like even even more better than like normal AI um so so that's what I mentioned then maybe more for like the leader side um if you if you're concerned is like budget and onboarding of like vendors and others uh recently found spend hound and uh they their premium product th at is like uh getting all your vendors spend under control and uh um probably not so great for like this audience unless there's a few leaders in here that are that have that concern there are leaders who watch they don't comment but they're in my DM so just FYI

so what what was it called again spent Hound um it's great man spent Hound spend Town gotcha spend Hound like money dog spend Hound oh okay got okay there you go okay cool sorry I'm probably not saying it no no no you're no no no you're fine spend pound yeah spend Hound um okay it's just been really good for like um the team really helps you it you do an import of like all your vendors and um they build out like nice reports it just helps you get it all under control because that's just such a sprawling issue um I I know we're probably a

little over um if you if you did watch the stream and you think I could be of help in like reading resume or doing a mock interview or some feedback uh of the to help just reach out I'm I'm eas erprise Plus co-pilot Enterprise yeah co-pilot is more repository aware you can go through documentation and like understand all the uh all the repos and what they do I I think that's going to be a Big Boon for us in our onboarding and um you know a lot of these companies have repositories that sprawl like you're not just in this like monolithic thing where there's only

three repository about like we have about 60 other companies work to have hundreds of repositories right like how do we orchest y if I can give you the time I will uh anything else you want to talk about t uh last question kind of goes on like fulfilling career but it's a little bit kind of adjacent what would you tell young Jesse uh on just like biggest career advice to Young Jesse what would you tell him when you like if you can go back in time and tell your younger self the best career advice would to be just say yes yeah keep saying yes to

Opportunities I think I think I mostly did um that opened a lot of doors just being willing to like try new things but um yeah you just say yes just try don't don't uh sit idle and wait like action action will move you forward so say yes and try things I love it I love it that's awesome y'all thank you again for tuning in this was great hopefully you enjoyed the conversation go connect with Jesse uh he's a gem obviously um Jesse SE so I can say bye to you backstage but y'all have a good one uh tomorrow have an amazing guest on the show

it's going to be another great one have a great Tuesday see y'all tomorrow peace thank